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All loads are using Zero 230gr JHP loaded to COL=1.215" with a 0.469" crimp, Winchester primer, and fired from 5" 1911: 6.2gr N340 858fps 3.8gr N310 740fps 5.3gr N320 848fps

Viewing many posts here and at other forums over the years, I have seen many people express their opinion that a particular Vihtavuori powder was great, but too expensive compared to other powders that were almost as good. The impression is generally that, if money were no object, many more people would be using Vihtavuori powders. When I look at the numbers, I really don't see a huge difference. Sure, if you look at the cost of a pound of powder, Vihtavuori's prices look super high. But if you take into account the amount of each powder you would need per round for your purposes, the cost difference may not be as big as you think. I have attached a small example spreadsheet in which I compared Viht N320, Ramshot ZIP, and W231. The charges shown are, based on my data, generated with my guns, the charges needed of each powder to drive a 45acp 230gr jacketed bullet to about 850fps. One set of numbers is for a 1 lb bottle of each, and the other is for a 4 lb bottle of each. For 1000 rounds, the cost difference between N320 and W231 is less than $5 (less than $3 for the 4 lb bottles). These results will, of course, vary depending on the type of load you shoot. I just thought I'd throw this out there just to make folks aware that there's more to consider than just the price tag on the bottle, and that powder is probably not the biggest contributor to the cost of your ammo. So if you're one of those people who loves Vihtavuori, but don't use it because you think it is too expensive, you might want to crunch your numbers. It might not be as bad as you think. Powder_Comparison.txt

The purpose of a magazine disconnect is to prevent the gun from firing without the magazine... Unless this one engages a firing pin block, I don't see how it could be dry fired without a mag??? And yes, when I dry fired it, the mag was in. The gun will not fire a chambered round with the magazine removed, but you can still pull the trigger with the mag removed, and the striker will move a bit before it is stopped by the disconnect safety. The manual warns against doing this as it could damage some parts if done repeatedly, but even if not done frequently, it will make the trigger pull feel quite bad while you are doing it. I'm sure this gun doesn't have the best triger feel in the world. I'm just saying that for those who want to see what it really feels like, check it by dry firing it with the magazine inserted.......or better yet, rent or borrow one and head to the range. Guns and ammo has a new article about this gun from the January issue at their website....www.gunsandammomag.com. It looks like a decent offering. I guess time will tell how it is received by the shooting public. I myself have never liked any Ruger handgun, but this one is pretty interesting.

For all of you who have tried the trigger and say it is awful, did you dry fire it with the magazine in the gun ? With the magazine removed, the magazine disconnect safety will drag on the striker and make the trigger pull feel terrible.

Wow. I'm surprised that some of you use spring weights so low. I am talking about ammo with a PF of about 195-196. I guess I don't have anything to worry about with a 16lb spring. I look forward to trying it out.

For shooting factory 230gr ammo, is there much of a difference in felt recoil between a 16lb recoil spring and an 18.5lb recoil spring in a 5" 1911? A 2lb reduction in recoil spring weight (from 16 to 14) made a huge difference in my 9mm CZ, and I was wondering if I could expect the same in my 45 going from an 18.5lb to a 16lb.

If you like Ramshot powders, you might want to try True Blue or Silhouette. Both should get you the velocity you want without straining anything pressure-wise. I don't have my data in front of me, but I believe 7.0gr of True Blue gave me about 850fps with a 230gr JHP loaded to 1.215". For a comparable load, I typically use 6.2gr of Vihtavuori N340. It produces about 850-870 fps with the same bullet.

3.8gr of N310 is giving me 730 fps with a Zero 230gr JHP loaded to 1.21".

+1 for Winchester primers ! To mimic factory hardball a slower burning powder than Clays might be in order. Winchester W231 is widely available, reasonably priced, and meters well. Many shooters swear by it. It is still a bit on the fast side for me. Personally, I use Vihtavuori N340. The Viht powders are outstanding, but comparatively expensive. Of the powders I've tried for hardball equivalent loads (230gr at about 850 fps), the Viht powders burn the cleanest. If burning a bit dirtier doesn't bother you, the aforementioned W231, and Ramshot True Blue will do the trick. True Blue is a very finely grained powder and meters exceptionally well. As for bullets, I prefer a conventionally jacketed bullet (not lead, not plated, not poly or moly coated). In a plain old jacketed bullet, I've not found a better value than Zero Bullets from any of the retailers that carry them. They offer FMJ and JHP in 230gr.

For those of you recommending "an optic", do you mean some sort of red-dot sight or a conventional scope ? As I indicated, I already have a scope mounted on the rifle (Weaver Grand Slam 3.5-10X). I appreciate everyone's feedback. Whether I leave the scope on, go back to the fixed sights (Bushmaster A3 handle rear and flip up front), or a new optical sight, I still need to learn my part. Now I've got more info to help me do that.

Thanks again for all of the info. I really am completely new with the rifle. I figured "I can shoot a handgun pretty well...how different can it be ?". But I don't shoot what I'd call good groups with the AR, and I know that's because I don't know what I'm doing. Mine is a Bushmaster V-Match 16", stock as it comes from the factory. The trigger is a bit rougher and heavier than I'm used to, but not awful. The range I use has a separate 25-50-100 range and another 200-300-600 range. I'll have to check out resources you all mentioned.

Thanks for the info. What's the best way to get started "the right way" with basic rifle marksmanship ? I'm on the east coast, and as far as I know we're not awash in coaches (or rifle ranges for that matter).

I have a flat top 16" AR from Bushmaster. While I have had it for a few years, I have hardly fired it (I'm a pistol guy). So I am very new to rifle shooting. Do most folks shoot at 100 yards with iron sights ? If so, what kind of groups should be expected at that range ? The reason I ask is that when I first got the rifle, I tried it with the standard A2 sights. At 100 yards, my front sight obscured at least half, if not all of the 8.5" x 11" sheet of paper I was aiming at. That being the case, I couldn't see how I was to actually aim at the 2" x 2" "bull" I had on that paper. Even if the 2" x 2" square wasn't obscured, I don't know if I could see it from that far away. I ended up putting a scope on the AR, but that always felt like cheating. I'd like to get to learn how to shoot it accurately with the iron sights. But I have no clue what's reasonable to expect as far as groups with iron sights at various distances. If just hitting that piece of paper consistently at 100 yards is just fine, I don't want to beat myself up for not shooting 2" groups. Can any of you provide some guidance ? Thanks.

I settled on the 3.8gr charge listed below. All are COL=1.215", 0.469" crimp. I stuck with my 18.5lb spring and haven't had any problems. These velocities are from a 5" Kimber. I get about 7fps less from my 5" Wilson. Viht N310, Zero 230gr JHP 3.8gr 729fps 3.9gr 754fps 4.0gr 770fps 4.1gr 781fps 4.2gr 801fps

Thank you very much !

I also use Zero 230gr JHP. Two factory equivalent loads that work for me are: 6.2gr Vihtavuori N340 860fps 7.0gr Ramshot True Blue 847fps I load to an OAL of 1.215", and crimp 0.469". I plan to try a faster burn rate powder for this application as well....probably N320.

What program generated this data, if you don't mind me asking. It was QuickLoad.

Wow ! That's quite a program. Thanks for running that report. Have you found the software fairly accurate when you compare its predictions with rounds you've chrono'd yourself ?

Would N320 be straining anything to reach 850fps with a 230gr JHP, or is that well within its capability ? 4.2gr of N310 gives me 800fps in my guns, so it's hard to imagine that I couldn't reach 850fps safely with N320. Is there any reason not to use N320 for this purpose ? I'm looking around because I am currently using N340 for my 850fps load, but it seems to kick more than other powders I've used. I'm hoping that N320 will get me the same velocity with softer recoil (and maybe a little more consistency).

Zero recommended 1.2" - 1.22". I split the difference and went with 1.21" and have had no problems so far.

So many of the users of this forum advocate using Hodgdon Clays. However, I have seen several users mention significant problems with consistent metering of Clays on their progressive presses. So what's the scoop ? Does Clays meter well on say, a Dillon press, or is it problematic in that regard ?

Medic: Did you ever load the N320 higher than 4.9gr with the 230gr JHP ? If so, I'd be interested to see what your chrono results were with the higher charge weights.

I typically shoot a load of 6.2gr N340 with a Zero 230gr JHP, 0.469" crimp, COL= 1.215", Winchester large pistol primers. Recently, I was working up a lighter (i.e.- lower PF) load using N310 and measured the following on my chrono. All means are based on 20 rounds fired from 5" Kimber at 80 deg F with chrono 15 ft from muzzle. 3.9gr 754 SD=10.4 ES=45.5 4.0gr 770 SD=12.0 ES=39.3 4.1gr 781 SD=11.6 ES=38.4 4.2gr 801 SD=6.6 ES=25.2 I also reclocked my 6.2gr of N340 load in both of my 1911's and got: Kimber: 866 SD=18.8 ES=74.2 Wilson: 859 SD=24.4 ES=79.3 I notice that the SD's and spreads are quite a bit lower with the N310. Everything else is the same with these two loads except the powder. Can anyone explain why the faster powder seems to give more consistent results ? Is that common ?

Thanks for the input everyone !

I am working up a new (for me) load with 230gr Zero JHP's and N310 for use in USPSA Single Stack. Power factor will be 165-170, more likely 168-170. Is a lighter recoil spring called for with this type of load ? I have seen some recommendations for a 14lb spring. I have no experience with lighter loads like this. I am used to standard hardball equivalent ammo and an 18.5lb spring.