rvb
-
Posts
1,575 -
Joined
-
Last visited
Content Type
Forums
Profiles
Events
Store
Posts posted by rvb
-
-
That said, I know in my heart that this proposal falls on the deaf ears of most here. Which will never be satisfied with IDPA until it is morfed into another shooting sport entirely. We should just use the rules of another shooting sport, but with vests.
kr
that's hardly fair to say of those who disagree with you. I've seen similar discussion on the idpa forum, too, and at many matches by shooters who never shoot anything but idpa. It's a very contentious rule, and not just here. please keep the discussion about the rule... I think this is the longest a thread of this type has gone w/o getting locked, so don't start w/ the us v them nonsense, especially when many here are both "us" AND "them."
-rvb
-
No it isn't. But rules get changed all the time in other sports when they are flawed. It's blatantly obvious that this rule cannot be enforced 100% of the time. As such it quite simply is unfair to other competitors. How do you disagree with this?!?!?
I agree with this. Am I correct to assume that you would just rather do away with the dumping penalty ? (I tried to read back in your pother posts but couldnt find a definitive answer.)
What about doing away with the dumping penalty, doing away with the mandatory retention if you are not at slide lock. Then if the COF designer wants to mandate a RWR, then the COF rules need to say so and where.
ex. Competitor is to engage t1-t3 and popper 1, Then RWR, engage T4-T7.
How about that ?
From the rule book pg 42:
Reload with Retention (RWR) ...NOTE: HQ urges course designers to draft scenario courses that
do not require tac-loads or reloads with retention to be performed
“on the clock”.
Two ways of reading that... either you shouldn't be designing stages where RWRs are necessary, or they shouldn't be required in the course description. .
As I said before, if you want a RWR (assuming the later interpretation above), stage design is the answer. a big barricade w/ 6 on one side and 6 on the other usually does it, for example. Drop the dumping rule, keep all other rules in place, mix in some good stage design, and problem solved.
"Stand here, reload after this target, etc," is called a "standard" course, not a scenario course.
-rvb
-
Ryan,
With due respect, the proposal is a serious attempt to put an end to the round dumping issue forever. You have been wanting that... Yes? Isn't that what this thread is about?
Not at the expense of throwing out vicker's scoring.... that's the proverbial tossing the baby with the bathwater....
taking an extra shot already has a time penalty... the time it takes to make an extra shot. let people dump who want to dump. It doesn't bother me. get rid of the dumping rule, not the scoring system. That's like buying a new house because the faucet drips.
-rvb
-
But here is another idea.
Replace the Round Dumping rule with a 1/2 second penalty for every shot over the required minimum per target.
We already have a scoring system in the book that penalizes extra shots... and the book describes it as "not suitable for Scenario stages" (pg 46), and I agree w/ that. Otherwise every stage becomes a standard exercise.
-rvb
-
...was meeting her boyfriend in Key West and wanted to be properly groomed
....
Her ex-husband, who was in the passenger's seat, took the wheel while she focused on other areas,
Thanks, I needed a laugh today... now I can't stop!
-
Is this the system's problem, or that what is set down in the Rule Book in black and white is not being enforced? From what I have seen in this thread, and every thread on this topic that I have ever read in eight years on this board, the problem is not the system. The problem is that many SOs have decided not to enforce part of the Rule Book, not even to the extent of asking a competitor whether or not they just round dumped. Why is this? Have they decided they're not going to enforce a "bad rule", only the rules with which they agree? When they became SOs did they not commit to enforcing the entire Rule Book, not just the parts they like?
If it's a good "system," then why not apply it everywhere? Just ask pf? Just ask gun weight? Just ask gear location under the cover garment? Just ask if gun fits the box? Just ask if the shooter stayed behind cover? Perhaps we should apply the "system" at the state level... traffic cops just ask how fast you were going?
... Actually, it's worse than that; the questions would really be, "did you intend to make pf," "did you intend for your gun to make weight," "did you intend to stay behind cover," etc.
Your point is taken that the question can and should be asked. That might catch that small over-lapping subset of cheaters who don't lie about it. But if that's the only means of enforcement, then my opinion is that it's not a very valid rule. I do think it's the system's problem.
-rvb
-
It's not fair to the honest shooters and not fair to the SOs.
How do you figure?
rather than re-type, I'll just quote myself....
From the hundreds of matches I have attended here are a few observations:
Way more people are getting away with dumping rounds, than are being called for it. The ratio may be hundreds to one. ...
I don't understand? We have a system where possibly 99 out of every 100 people who are effectively cheating are not penalized appropriately, and the system isn't bad? Is that even a system?
I tend to think the pain this rules causes IS landing on the honest non-dumper... those who get their scores bested by shooters who do dump. It also lands on those non-dumpers who (in my experience) get accused of dumping when honestly making up a shot.
And I don't think it's fair to the SOs to have a rule that cannot be measured/applied/etc short of the shooter admitting it.
-rvb
-
But you really couldn't, Ryan. Unless he has 3 rounds in the -0 zone (and even still), it's still a totally subjective call. I don't know about you, but I can think of a lot of times in stages that things didn't go as planned. I've also made up a lot of 2 A's with another A.
Problems arise whenever you have to judge "Intent."
What do you do if the alleged round dumping is on a swinger? Even if you heard the guy planning it, could you really give him a procedural for winging 3 at it?
Jake, It was years ago and details are long forgotten... would I make the same call today? I dunno. It was the circumstances at the time. It was pretty brazen (something like "I'll do it anyway cause you can't enforce it"). At that time I didn't feel I was judging intent, it was told to me. An unusual circumstance, I've never considered it since.
Bottom line is the rule needs to go.
It's not fair to the honest shooters and not fair to the SOs.
Legal reloads are defined. Vickers and Limited Vickers are defined. Stage design does the rest.
-rvb
-
I enforced it once... overheard someone saying they were going to do it. warned them about the ramifications, then they were PO'd because I "couldn't know" their intent...
-rvb
-
I guess I could take it to extreme and if I miss a popper, can I call for calibration just hoping it won't go down?
-rvb
The rule (C1, Item 6) says "does not fall when hit". To me that means that I will need to see evidence that it was indeed hit (even if marginally so by some edge evidence) before I would consent to a calibration challenge.
One of the many reasons why steel needs to be painted between shooters.
can the evidence be a witness (RO? Score keeper? squad mate?)? does it have to be a bullet spatter?
-rvb
-
Way more people are getting away with dumping rounds, than are being called for it. The ratio may be hundreds to one.
...
So maybe the system isn't as bad as one would believe from this discussion.
kr
kr,
I don't understand? We have a system where possibly 99 out of every 100 people who are effectively cheating are not penalized appropriately, and the system isn't bad? Is that even a system?
-rvb
Ryan,
You make a good point. But my point was most of the pain this rule causes is not landing on the honest non-dumper so I don't mind.
A myopic view point indeed, but it works for me.
kr
I tend to think the pain this rules causes IS landing on the honest non-dumper... those who get their scores bested by shooters who do dump. It also lands on those non-dumpers who (in my experience) get accused of dumping when honestly making up a shot.
Would you say the same thing if we replaced round dumping with, oh, 100 pf ammunition? If we catch 1 out of 100 that's good enough? They get penalized "sometimes" so by the rules of karma it's ok? That is not hurting people who shoot minimum pf ammo?
-rvb
-
rvb
in Range Diary
Worked on the basement most of the weekend, so between lack of time and being a little sore I didn't do much dryfire. But what dryfire I have done I've really focused on varying round counts like Russel suggested, and really focused on putting a mental pause to make sure I call the shots before and after a reload (kinda like the "mental pause" we might add before putting the mag in on a re-load.
My par times last night sucked, but I blame that on being sore from lifting drywall and building shelves. But my times the night before were awesome... I was dry-firing El-Prezs in 4.1, and that's with my "pause" to make sure I call those problem shots. I also think that's a "trick of the day," putting my focus on something else, but hey it shows potential.
Figured out what was wrong w/ the frame on my 92 that busted the barrel... just a little peaning from when the barrel luck got bent outta line. Two swipes w/ a file and it seems to function ok. Forum member shooter_rob is hooking my up w/ a new barrel/block cheap.
New WOA barrel came middle of the week... pretty quick!
-rvb
-
Appendix C1 6c c. The popper is left standing and the competitor challenges the calibration.
In this case, the popper and the surrounding area on which it
stands must not be touched or interfered with by any person. If a
Match Official violates this rule, the competitor must reshoot the
course of fire. If the competitor or any other person violates this rule,
the popper will be scored as a miss and the rest of the course of fire
will be scored “as shot”. If the popper falls for any non-interference
reason (e.g. wind action), before it can be calibrated, Section 4.6 will
apply and a reshoot must be ordered.
Honest Question...
If Steel is scored based on whether if fell and not based on where the bullet hit, do you have to see splatter before calling for a calibration? In other words... is painting it really interfering with it?
I guess I could take it to extreme and if I miss a popper, can I call for calibration just hoping it won't go down? Do you need "proof" it was hit before calling for calibration? What if it wasn't painted and had dozens of hit marks?
Not trying to stir the pot, but these came to mind while reading the responses...
-rvb
-
Way more people are getting away with dumping rounds, than are being called for it. The ratio may be hundreds to one.
...
So maybe the system isn't as bad as one would believe from this discussion.
kr
kr,
I don't understand? We have a system where possibly 99 out of every 100 people who are effectively cheating are not penalized appropriately, and the system isn't bad? Is that even a system?
-rvb
-
rvb
in Range Diary
I've been bad and haven't done any dryfiring all week... been catching up on brass prep. Had buckets and buckets of dirty and un-sorted brass. Seems it's been a couple years since I've done that chore. I ran out of clean 9mm brass.
-rvb
-
rvb
in Range Diary
try practicing with different numbers of shots on a target. we get used to shooting 2 per target, and it's easy to get lazy on the 2nd shot, especially when you want to move on to something else (like another target, or a reload). try 3 or 4 shots per target.
That's a really good point, Russel. Might help explain why I've been much better at not leaving the last steel in an array standing, yet I'm still having trouble on situations like the last shot before before the RL on El Prez... really, it seems to only be standing reloads that give me fits.
... just need to call that shot...
-rvb
-
just when i start to talk myself out of an idea, you bring up a good point not to, haha.
My wife gets SO mad because I'll present all kinds of arguments for or against something, then usually about when I have her convinced I'll present all kinds of arguments the other way... hey, just making sure you have all the options to properly trade (the engineer in me).
Seriously, if you have $ burning a hole in your pocket, my recommendations...
1) good class
2) progressive press
3) work on existing gun
4) new blaster
-rvb
-
The problem I may be able to see is that i would buy a low-mid end LTD gun then maybe want to get a "good" one later. i dont like the idea of maybe buying two guns.
It's always good to have a back-up gun... so if you get something "low end" now, shoot the crap out of it and learn the game, it will make a good practice and backup gun a few years down the road when you REALLY know exactly what you want/need in a gun and pony up for that dream blaster....
-rvb
-
ive thought about the 10rd mags as well. .... shoot and upgrade what I have a lil bit or get a new gun to shotot slightly different stuff. i suppose if i go the route of not getting a new gun, a new press could fill its place. Anyway, back on the topic at hand...what does everyone else think? new gun or upgrade current ( and maybe get new mags for a new div)
keep as is? new mags? upgrade gun? new gun? reloader? a lot of faces on that coin.
1st, Shoot the game for a little while w/ what you have. From your diary I see you only have 2 matches under your belt. It won't take you long to figure out what you really want to do. Right now it sounds like you have a dozen different options and you're trying to justify buying a new gun or doing lots of mods.
2nd, set a goal. With a goal you'll be able to identify what equipment you'll need to get there.
So if (for example) after a dozen matches you think Limited looks like more fun than the SS you're shooting now, get a decent Limited gun and set goals. If you enjoy SS and see no need to switch, then a goal will keep your practices and your equipment needs focused.
In other words, you need to figure out what YOU WANT, we can't do it for you.
Adding to the mix... Another option you aren't considering beyond equipment or a press is a good class from a top uspsa shooter.
-rvb
-
rvb
in Range Diary
It's the same old problem... I hurried getting to the reload. Failed to call the last shot before the reload and pulled it, and hurried the next shot after seating the mag.this is bothering me. I've had this problem for a long time. I thought I had mostly beaten last year, at least on steel arrays. But that "last shot" has plagued me for TOO LONG.
so... how to fix it?
Any suggestions out there? (haha... like anyone reads my nonsense!)
1) Dryfire. I NEED to make sure I call those shots. I'll turn the par off and just beep to start to help with the "hurry" mentality. Maybe for a couple nights I'll put an intentional "pause" after the last shot to get used to some "visual patience" prior to reloading and/or moving.
2) Livefire. Not doing enough of this. I need to make some smoke. I need to set up some arrays and confirm w/ actual holes in cardboard that I am correctly calling these shots.
3) Trust. The time "is what it is" and it WILL be good enough. I CAN afford the time it takes to align the sights and call the shots. I have this trust on every other shot on any given stages... it's just the last shot before doing "something else" that tend to think about speed.
-rvb
-
rvb
in Range Diary
Sunday 2/28: Shot production at the indoor match at Bend of the River, MI08. It was a quick match, just 3 stages (did I really spend over 3.5 hours in the car to shoot a 42-round match? nuts?).
First stage I shot really well. Won the stage in the combined results. Simple 18-rounder broken into three 3-target positions, all through ~3' high ports (seated start). I gained a big advantage now that I am confident in my shooting on the move. I popped out of the chair immediately started engaging through the first port while moving towards it (had to get relatively close to see the 3rd target). I was probably done w/ the first array before most people started pulling the trigger. I feel like the work I put into shooting on the move during last season has opened up a whole new dimension of stage break-down.
Stage 2... 99-11 (El Prez.) D'oh.
I confirmed that No, you cannot miss fast enough.
4.52 seconds, 2 mikes, earned 42 points (6A, 4C, 2M). It's the same old problem... I hurried getting to the reload. Failed to call the last shot before the reload and pulled it, and hurried the next shot after seating the mag.
Poor execution of the mag change and a mike into hardcover ruined stage 3. Simple 3 targets left and 3 right of a wall. Let myself focus on the hard cover line as I was lining up the sights instead of focusing on where I wanted the bullet to go... don't cha know my bullet went where I was looking? I called it right on the line and took the chance it snuck into brown, but it snuck a bit too far into the cover. I'll chalk that one to dusting off the match cobwebs after the winter break....
-rvb
-
rvb
in Range Diary
Friday 2/26:
- ordered some parts for a new AR... looking to build a 3-gun rifle. Have a White Oaks SPR barrel on the way as well as a bolt and flat top receiver. Going to have to wade through the optics options and figure out a good 69-77gr load to start with...
- went to the range to get some live fire in... only fired about 150 rounds before my gun broke.
Spent some time looking at a G34 in the shop as a result... is the time to switch getting closer?
Did some dryfire with my EliteII for the match at Bend of the River. basic stuff like draws and reloads to get used to the differences between the guns.
-rvb
-
My old practice gun decided I didn't really need to practice today...
I was about 150 rounds into the 400 I took to the local indoor range. I had finished a timing drill and some bill drills and had moved on to shooting groups at 10 yds when the shots started impacting higher and higher, yet I was calling the shots all center of the group. Then it started binding up going into battery... then finally it locked up tight. really tight.
My first assumption was the locking block, but looking from the top the block appeared ok. Then I thought maybe the hammer release lever broke since I had one of those break on another gun once and it similarly locked the gun up.
Upon closer inspection, I found this.....
Now I'm not at all upset this happened. I feel I got my money's worth out of the gun. I KNOW I have put over 100k rounds through this gun, probably closer to 120k... and it was a 10yr old police trade in when I bought it. I'll try to find a cheap barrel to put back in it to keep it running for a little while...
-rvb
-
Thread Drift:
Since you guys mentioned shooting at Angola, I'm there most months, usually RO'ing or scoring or working in some fashion as well as shooting. Introduce yourselves. It's always good to get to know more folks. I'll be at the March 28 classifier. I'll be the big guy shooting the Beretta.
Also, this sunday, 2/28, there is an indoor match in Niles, MI.
-rvb
2010 Indiana SS/Prod/Revolver
in Match Announcements - Pistol Only - USPSA, IPSC & Misc.
Posted
Sorry, but I think you'll most likely be shooting "U" for the match. The Angola classifier is the end of march, which means the update won't be done until around 15 April, after this match is complete. Nothing wrong w/ shooting "U." Have fun and see where you place!
-rvb