Waltermitty

The biggest change I saw was when I moved to reduced power hammer and trigger return springs. You'll have to use Federal primers exclusively for reliable function, but you will be amazed at the improvement you can make on your own with those simple parts.

Keep an eye on it. I experienced the same kind of failures with my 625, and within about 6 months I had to replace the cylinder. The high-speed trigger work will tend to peen both the cylinder and the stop.

The match was definately First Class. Dave and the Arkansas crew are one of the best sections in the nation. Ron and CASA are working very hard to become a premier operation. If you haven't been there you should go see what a great operation they have. Alas, there was no Arkansas Revolver champion. All of the revolver shooters were from out of state! Wassup wid dat? Next weekend is the last chance for practice before Area 4. I'll be in OKC Saturday then I'll probably practice my 50 yard groups for a few days until I leave for Princeton, LA. Man I hate 50 yard standards...

Awww, come on Lynn, shoot 6 gun with us. I'd like to see one of those "high" reloads with a wheel gun.

I say shoot your revolver in revolver division. Besides the fun you'll have, you'll lend an element of diversity to the match while inspiring shooters young and old with your fearless individualism. Or at least provide comic relief which always makes for a great time.

I almost typed horse and buggy or chariot racing myself but wanted to leave something for the Cowboys. Maybe if we had Charleton Heston "Pimp My Ride" I could be in Open? "Excuse me RO, but do these long spikey hubcap thingys bump me into open class?"

I like your breakdown, but you may be leading some folks down the garden path a little. I was with you till Production. In my world: Production is stock. Revolver is vintage racing with Flathead Fords and stripped T buckets....

A scan through major match results shows that the Garcia match is a little unusual. The Florida State match had more Open shooters as do most of the major matches in USPSA. I do not think this distribution holds true for club level matches, even big ones. While not a hard core Open Division shooter, I don't think the group in general sees themselves as the division of women, children and old folks.

This is probably why there is more "classified" limited shooters than open. Maybe the States is different to Australia, but I have never been to a major match (US matches included) that there was more Limited shooters than Open shooters. "Are we actually talking about alot more divisions? After all, will the 8 shot revo shooter want to compete with the guy with optics and a comp?" I assume you mean a stock (iron sights) 8 shooter. I personally can't see an advantage in shooting an 8 shot in a limited division, sure you have 2 extra shots but a 625 loads faster and would probably even out speed wise over a big match. I personally am only interested in an open division so I can run the dot and comp on my 8 shot against other Open revolver shooters. This is how I understood your comments, excuse me if I have misunderstood. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Thanks for the feedback. My point about Limited vs Open shooters is that virtually all Open shooters either started out or passed through one of the Limited divisions (and therefore hold multiple classifications) and there are significantly more Limited divison shooters that don't also hold an Open classification. So at any given major match there may be more Open shooters that day, but they would have never gotten there without passing through Limited first. As such, Limited division is the engine for the volume. It may be that today, Production class will add contribution (which is great) but I just don't see significant numbers starting out in Open. Am I making any sense? In terms of economics and making the numbers work, the volume favors the (more) Limited division(s) among bottom feeders. So my thought is that while creating an Open Revolver division might attract some current revolver shooters with racing revolvers, (also great!) to get numbers to build the division there first needs to be an entry with lower barriers. I think this may be what is a contributor to the IDPA revolver success. My question about 8 shot limited goes back to the bitter pill that was presented in the 14th edition rule book. Prior to that rule book there was no 6 shot limit. I knew several people that planned to do well with their new 8 shot moon clip guns in the new revolver division. OOOps. I'll tell ya, particularly with the new classifiers, and 8 shot limited revo in 38 Super would dominate the 625's. You just can't overcome those standing reloads on 8 shot target arrays.

Hop, 8, I like the idea of the Open Revolver Division although I don't own any equipment that would qualify. The challenge for convincing the skeptics and validating the economics is that there are fewer than 800 (785) classified revolver shooters in USPSA in the entire U.S. Not all of those folks would qualify as committed shooters, some will have classifications just because they shoot the annual revolver match in their home clubs. That's fewer that any other division has in "C" class alone. I would be happy to find that there are Thousands of revolver shooters out their waiting for an Open Revolver Division. However, on the semi-auto side there are about 50% more classified Limited shooters than Open shooters. I don't know that would hold true in wheelguns, but assuming an Open Revolver would be optics, comps, and capacity unlimited, the barriers to entry would possibly tend to cause Open Revolver shooters to all be from a Limited Revolver division primarily. Said another way, it appears that almost all "Open" shooters start out as "Limited" shooters in the bottom feeder world. The truly "Hardcore" competitors migrate to Open. Without a broad "limited" division to draw from, where will the "open" shooters come from? Are we actually talking about alot more divisions? After all, will the 8 shot revo shooter want to compete with the guy with optics and a comp?

I have seen the thread and applaud the effort. Time is a constraint for all of us. My concern on a "Revolver Championship" in USPSA is it wouldn't be sanctioned if it didn't follow the rules and recognize all divisions. This would tend to mitigate the distinction. The idea interests me of course, but it will be in competition with several other matches and would be a tremendous amount of work. Is it possible that one of the current match organizers would agree to help promote the division if you (we) brought our own sponsors to offset the expense of the promotions? (prizes, awards, etc.) If a few major match organizers would go along, it seems the net workload would be much less because we would be tagging on to an already existing match. (no need to plan toilet paper, hot dogs and first aid) Who would have a serious objection to some group of wheelgunners promoting their match in exchange for a "Revolvers Only" prize and trophy table? If we sponsor (and design) a couple of stages could we ensure they were "Revolver Happy"? Maybe USPSA would let us have a column in Front Sight for revolver issues? There are at least a couple of decent columns in this forum already. Just crazy talking out loud....

I'll throw in two pennies and give this topic a bump. All points made above are salient and well thought out. Shooting a handgun well is very hard. Shooting a revolver well is the hardest among all other types. It takes a special kind of person to make the committment of sweat, blood and treasure to play the game without recognition or external reward. This will ensure very small numbers of us in a mixed equipment environment. What could be done about it? In my view it would take remarkable individual action over 3-5 years to elevate Revolver Division to a Marquee division. What sorts of action would it take? First, realize that at headquarters level neither USPSA or IPSC has any economic incentive whatsoever to promote Revolver Division. Below that, the Areas and the Sections follow suit. For the organizations, this is strictly an economic problem. The organizations will not promote us until after there are enough numbers to provide them with an economic incentive. From a purely business standpoint, only the revolver manufacturers would have a potential interest in promoting the division. Right now, S&W owns USPSA revolver division pure and simple. Only they, and perhaps a competitor looking to expand their markets could be motivated to make something happen. Product has been pulled through competition before (SASS) and manufacturers have created competetive venues to pull their products (GSSF)through to market. However, USPSA competition is dominated by 2-3 relatively small gunmakers that can make a living on the numbers available in the sport. As a sport USPSA does not have the mass-market appeal required to attract serious attention from one of the major manufacturers. If a motivated group of individuals could put together a plan to ensure that the top three Revolver Division finishers in all Area and above matches were awarded an important prize (like another revolver) I think interest from talented competitors would increase and thereby pull more attention and more participants into the division. I am not in the firearm manufacturing business so my analysis is weak because I do not know the scale needed to interest a manufacturer into sponsorship. I am puzzled as to why S&W hasn't already executed a similar program through Jerry M. They certainly wouldn't harm any of their other business in USPSA, yet they don't seem to be very committed to growing the division they own. So who among us is prepared to take on this Sales & Promotion challenge?

Thanks hopalong. We definately need to show up in force. I'm still working out my schedule to make the Arkansas Section match. It's a 4 hour drive for me so I'll need to get in the night before. I'm entered for Area 4 and Nationals so I'll be at those two shows for sure. I've been to Area 4 several times but this will be my first Nationals. All these matches have more class when Revo shooters show up.

OK here's one. Arkansas State Limited Championship some years back. I was shooting a Glock 30 in limited division. I had had a slide stop spring fail the previous year, it failed again during one of the stages but I didn't notice when the slide stop slid out of the side of the gun. After hammer down I holstered the gun in my IWB Galco (fit pretty good). At the next stage the RO gives the LAMR command. I draw and present the bottom half of the gun. Slide, Barrel, etc stays in the holster. You'd a thougth I was a chicken farmer from the cackling going on behind me.....

That's right, I finished second. A distant second. But a good time was had by all. Stage 7 was definately the stage from Heck. A man shouldn't have to engage windmills, swingers, and 15 pieces of steel (including a Texas star and an Oklahoma doughnut) from 25 yards. I had moonclips scattered like bread crumbs clear across the stage.