FTP_Shooting_Sports

The guy wanted to see the recoil impulse go up his arm.

I am starting to think it's grip more than anything. I spent some time looking at KA's videos. If you look at them frame by frame, you will see that the gun has almost no muzzle rise until the slide hits the frame. At that point, he gets a large muzzle rise similar to what you see in all my videos. If you look at Cha-lee's videos, all his muzzle rise is also when the slide his the frame but the gun only rises a fraction of the height that KA and I are seeing with our guns. So either his grip is a LOT better than ours, or his gun is hitting the frame with a lot less force. Here is a frame by frame comparison of one of KA's videos: http://www.picpaste.com/pics/tanfoglio_frame_recoil.1450387295.jpg Chal-ee's video: http://www.picpaste.com/chalee-uUBfgovk.jpg You can also see that Cha-lee videos he does not start with the muzzle horizontal. He has a downward angle on the gun already. Take a look at the ling on the garage door behind the gun as a reference point.

KA: The stock Czechmate compensator weighs 113 grams = 3.99 Ounces for your reference. I think I am going to take a page out of the CFC Compensator design and combine the last two ports. I like his data on how the pressure drops off towards the front of the comp and a larger chamber is required (the opposite of what most comp designers have been doing). I will also have a couple of side ports put in. If nothing else, it will take some weight off the very end of the comp. On top of that, the new barrel design will get fitted and the gunsmith is going to square the bottom of the FPS and slightly increase the stroke of the gun. I may also try a heavier firing pin spring depending on how it all ends up feeling and looking in slow motion. The Czechmate uses a guide rod specific to that gun (Not the same as the TS guide rod) so there is no easy drop in lighter version available.

CZ Czechmate 14 LB Variable Recoil Spring with major load:

CZ Czechmate (9mm Major) with factory spring:

Benny Hill 38 Super: CZ Shadow Open Gun (9mm Major)

STI Trubor shooting minor 9mm load : ST Trubor shooting major 99 load:

I have an extra comp and was thinking the same thing. A lighter comp would mean less energy being transferred right? Of course, less weight off the end of the barrel means more flip as well. Suggestions?

I have had the exact same issue with my two Czechmates. They break the barrel in the exact same spot. I have relayed this information to CZ and they are aware of the issue. They do have a new barrel design with more meat in that area where the barrels are breaking. I just received those barrels and will have them fitted by a gunsmith. Hopefully that helps the issue. The gun still breaks slide stops which great frequency so it is obvious that there is a lot of energy being placed on that area. It also appears that the slide stops have uneven wear on them so they are being loaded up on smaller points instead of the energy being spread across a larger area. I am no engineer, but it is obvious that a solution is needed to lessen the impact to the slide stop and barrel peanut. I thought maybe a heavier hammer spring would help but I have no idea how much of that comes into effect during the part of recoil that loads up the front of the peanut.

There are bigger differences in comps than you probably realize. Do you shoot Open? Open Major in particular? As far as the frame and slide collision, you are correct. We do a lot of spring testing on our Open guns. At least I do. Light springs are the ticket. Heavier spring MAY reduce the rearward collision speed but will increase the forward speed of the slide causing even more movement. Since we have kind of concluded that PREDICTABLE dot movement is key it stands to reason we want to find the happy medium for slide travel and velocity.Dots are going to move, no question. Getting them to move as little as possible and predictably is key. Yes I shoot open. I have a CZ Czechmate and an STI Trubor. Yes, I agree tracking the dot and having the dot stabilize for the next shot are very important. The comp obviously does help in the tracking but a lot of the stabilization for the next shot seems to be spring related. I have probably read every thread on this topic and there are so many comp designs out there. However, all the videos seem to show that any decent comp is doing it's job and the majority of the flip is when the slide hits the frame and the wiggle when the gun goes back into battery is spring related more than anything. I have done my own slow motion video testing as well to verify this view. What I see are the guns that have a very short stroke seem to flip the most when the slide hits the frame but they also return to battery very quickly. If you try to control the slide speed with a heavier spring, the gun dips when it returns and your follow up shot will likely be very slow. A lighter spring means the frame takes a bigger pounding but the gun goes into battery much smoother and less dipping. My Czechmate breaks a lot of slide stops and I have had mutile barrel breakage where the slide stop goes through the frame. CZ has a new barrel design that is supposed to help with this issue but I will not know for sure until I get the new version fitted and tested. I look at guns like Eric Grauffel's and it has a very small, ancient designed comp and relies on barrel porting more than anything. They lightened the slide for greater slide speed and the barrel porting means you have to run an even larger charge of powder to make power factor. Obviously, he does pretty well with what seems like old comp technology. I have shot the Tanfoglio and it cycles very fast and the the dot settles down pretty quickly when the gun goes back into battery. He probably could have had any gun he wanted and had Tanfoglio modify it to suit his needs and look at what he chose. Early Tanfoglios suffered many durability issues like sheared lugs, cracked slides etc which all make sense given how they designed the gun. For longevity, all the longer stroke guns seem to cycle much slower and the hit to the frame is a lot lighter. They seem to last a lot longer before breakage. A gun cycles way faster than anyone can shoot so really it's when the dot is reacquired and settles would seem to be the most important criteria for faster follow up shots. A great deal of this is subjective to the individual shooter as well.

I have been watching all these comp testing threads with great interest. It appears to me, that the majority of the muzzle flip is due to the slide hitting the frame during recoil. The actual difference between comps seems very small. With that being said, wouldn't it be more beneficial to concentrate on limiting the impact force against the frame and/or modifying/improving your grip to control that upward movement?

First off, the TS barrel and the Czechmate barrel are exactly the same length (I have them both in front of me right now), the only difference being the CM barrel is treaded M14x0.75 so if you need a replacement barrel you can easily get a TS barrel from CZ USA for $145 and the die off EBay for $6 ( http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-14mm-14-x-0-75-Metric-Right-Hand-Die-thread-M14-x-0-75mm-Pitch-/180985957720) or pay a gunsmith to thread it for you. CZ USA also had some CM barrels recently, but I don't remember the price. The also have the comps and some other parts. Thanks. I never measured but assumed they were different lengths. However, do you think the 9mm open gun barrel would be any different in the chamber area since 9 major is must more potent than 9 minor?

The stopped coming with the extra barrels. Your friend must have received one that was built before they stopped. The barrels are 250.00 each now and you have to order them from CZ Czech as CZ U.S.A does not have any.

Mine actually cracked where the slidestop goes through the barrel but my friend's cracked at the barrel lugs which is something I have seen reported a few times on the internet. The TS barrel is not the same. The Czechmate barrel is longer and threaded. The barrels and supporting hardware are not typically available in North America so it is a long wait to get stuff from CZ Czech.

I just wanted to get some feedback on CZ Czechmate reliability? I have one and the barrel cracked at a low round count (approx. 10K). I a friend of mine also has one and experienced the same issue. There is not a lot of information about these pistols as the number sold is very small compared to other guns. I heard that early versions suffered from barrel issues which is why CZ supplied multiples from the factory. Later versions (like mine) did not come with the extra barrels. Parts are very hard to get for them and many have to come from CZ Czech directly. The gun itself has one of the best factory triggers out there and shoots wonderfully. However I am beginning to have my doubts about sticking to this platform for competition given the track records I have seen. What have other people experienced?