JayWord
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Posts posted by JayWord
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On 10/22/2016 at 11:38 PM, 78Staff said:
After another session of banging away with a god-awful kinetic style puller, I finally decided to get a better system. I picked up the RCBS die and a few collets, but lack a press. Eventually I could dedicated a 500 toolhead to the process I suppose, but the 550 is on the way to Dillon for a refresh, etc so I will be without it for a few weeks. So, thinking of picking up a single stage. I figure it may have other uses as well down the road (loading now on a 1050 for my main calibers and use the 550 for less used calibers).
First though was to just pick up a Rock Chucker - I see them on sale in the $130 range sometimes, but then I see the Lee Reloader (the "open C" one) press on sale for $39 I think it was. Probably fine for puling bullets I would assume? The Lee caught my eye as it was small and it wouldn't be on the bench all the time, so a nice compact little single stage easy to tuck away when not in use. The RCBS obviously is stronger, but takes up more space. I guess it depends on how much I would use a single stage other than for pulling...
Since I started loading on a rock chucker many years ago, I use it to do large quantities of bullet pulling. I ended up pulling over 500 9mm bullets after having multiple squibs due to a powder drop issue with an old style dillion powder measure. I also pulled a bunch of old 30-06 bullets to salvage the brass.
Jay
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21 minutes ago, CrashDodson said:
what type of stuff do you get to do at nationals as a level 1 RO?
Everything. If you have a three person team, you will run every third squad, score and shuffle paper. Some CROs will let you run more squads and concentrate on making sure the stage runs smoothly, but I am a hands on type of CRO so we share the wealth. In my opinion, working the Nationals or any other big match is the best way to learn the skills to be a great RO. I make a deal with my staff. They handle the squad check-in etc. and I will make sure the stage is physically ready to go, IE targets hung, steel checked, etc.
Jay
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21 minutes ago, CrashDodson said:
what type of stuff do you get to do at nationals as a level 1 RO?
Everything. If you have a three person team, you will run every third squad, score and shuffle paper. Some CROs will let you run more squads and concentrate on making sure the stage runs smoothly, but I am a hands on type of CRO so we share the wealth. In my opinion, working the Nationals or any other big match is the best way to learn the skills to be a great RO. I make a deal with my staff. They handle the squad check-in etc. and I will make sure the stage is physically ready to go, IE targets hung, steel checked, etc.
Jay
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Sorry to hear that. Rest in Peace.
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You could do it with a visual start (targets appearing) and all targets disappearing after a programmed amount of time. The shooter starts when they see the targets appear, and fires as many rounds as they wish. Would be a really cool stage concept actually, but likely would require automated turning targets for consistency. Of course, miss penalties would not apply.
Hmm,
Many years ago I did a stage similar to this with Gravity turners. If you do the math, a very good draw and shoot 2-A and quit shooting since missed do not count due to a disappearing target. 1 second draw 10 points= comstock around 10. Depending on the number of targets and their sequence it may be to your advantage to not shoot at any other targets.
Jay
Jay would that stage be from the 1996 Area 5 match? i remember having a good run shooting it the way you designed it, only to have it pulled when they gamers found a better way
Yep. At the end of Saturday the stage leader was a GM and the second place shooter was a C class shooter who screwed it up. Tossed due to lack of competitive equity, and bad acting.
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You could do it with a visual start (targets appearing) and all targets disappearing after a programmed amount of time. The shooter starts when they see the targets appear, and fires as many rounds as they wish. Would be a really cool stage concept actually, but likely would require automated turning targets for consistency. Of course, miss penalties would not apply.
Hmm,
Many years ago I did a stage similar to this with Gravity turners. If you do the math, a very good draw and shoot 2-A and quit shooting since missed do not count due to a disappearing target. 1 second draw 10 points= comstock around 10. Depending on the number of targets and their sequence it may be to your advantage to not shoot at any other targets.
Jay
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9.4.5
9.4.5 In a Virginia Count Course of Fire or a Fixed Time Course of Fire: 9.4.5.1 Extra shots (i.e. shots fired in excess of the number specified in a component string or stage), will each incur one procedural penalty. Additionally, during scoring, no more than the specified number and highest scoring hits will be awarded. 9.4.5.2 Extra hits (i.e. hits on the scoring area of scoring paper targets in excess of the total number specified in the stage), will each incur one procedural penalty. Note that hits on hard cover and/or no-shoots are not treated as Extra Hits. 9.4.5.2.1On a course of fire using a common firing line (see Rule 2.1.7), a competitor may not be credited or penalized for any scoring or penalty hit(s) which can reasonably be determined by the Range Officer (by caliber, grease mark, or angle of hit) to have been fired by an adjacent competitor. 9.4.5.3 Stacked shots (i.e. obviously shooting more than the required rounds on a target(s) while shooting other target(s) with fewer shots than specified in any string), will incur one procedural penalty per target insufficiently engaged in any string. This penalty will not be applied if the written stage briefing specifically authorizes stacked shots.
i have always been told that fixed time is always virgina count. we had a fixed time comstock stage yesterday. is there such a thing as fixed time comstock?
There can be no such thing as a fixed time comstock stage in handgun. Just like you cannot have steel in any stage that is scored Virginia count or fixed time. BTW: When I started shooting "Virginia count" was called limited comstock by some older shooters. It changed in the 1986 rulebook because it was confusing.
Multi-gun has limited time comstock for long range stages to limit the amount of time.
What was the stage. It is not a valid USPSA stage.
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So sorry to hear of his passing.
I met him a number of years ago. A good person to know. Rest in Peace.
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8.6.2 Any person providing interference or unauthorized assistance to a competitor during a course of fire (and the competitor receiving such assistance) may, at the discretion of a Range Officer, incur a 34 USPSA Handgun Rules, February 2014 Edition procedural penalty for that stage and/or be subject to Section 10.6
I would not, and hope that others wouldn't as well, issue a procedural if someone told the shooter they didn't have mags.
Would you inform the shooter he forgot to rack a round into the chamber? Or that he forgot to put a mag in the gun? Or allow somebody else to do so?
No.......see that is that discretion thing.
You might want to read the first paragraph in 8.1. The RO is specifically prohibited from telling the shooter he forgot to load his firearm. To me if anyone else does it they are going to get a coaching penalty. To me there is no discretion on that allowed by the rules verbiage and intent. Remember, where this sport came from. If you are not smart enough to load your gun before the stage, you get what you deserve, a nasty malfunction drill.
Jay
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Based on some of your scores, I'd say you havent found looking at the front of the targets useful either! :-) hey-ohhh!!On a related note...has anyone ever found looking at the back of the target useful, and if so, how?
The only time I look at the back of the target is for scoring IDPA shoot-throughs.
OUCH!! That's a 1-Alpha the hard way!
The 3 foot guide, not rule as stated by Gary Johnson:
The only thing that should get within 3 feet of a target are bullets, overlays and pasters.
It drives me nuts watching ROs fingering the target like they have to point up each hit.
"Don't touch the Target!" as heard at a Level 1 course.
BTW: The back of the target tells you nothing you can't find using your overlays.
Jay
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While I agree it is not good sportsmanship, I would not think it is a DQ worthy behavior.
In my opinion, if he throws it over the berm, it is mine.
Sometimes our shooters tend to act like spoiled children. Unless they throw it at me or another RO/ Shooter then we might have an issue, otherwise I will respectfully laugh at their childish behavior.
Seen D shooters thru GMs do it. Like it is the poor mags fault?
Jay
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Hungover RO's?
In my experience, a number of DQs occur early in the day. Nervous/hyped up shooters! Remember, each day is a new set of shooters. One day format.
Jay
Besides, you know ROs don't drink.
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Many years ago, John Wells told me that the chrono procedures are so heavily weighted to the shooters favor if you fail, it cannot be anyone else's fault.
This year we had a guy who had a squib and they just fired another round to get three valid readings.
The most common reason to fail is the shooters have little or no idea what their rounds actually run or have never checked the bullet weights. Some cut it awful close because that extra recoil makes such a difference. I guess 164.8 vs.168 makes all the difference. It sure does on scores.
Jay
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A number of the DQs at the SS/REV Nationals were unusual or strange.
A shooter at the make ready had a snap cap come out of the gun.
Sweeping hands while staging/placing ammo on the table directly in front of loaded pistol.
Sweeping hand on holstering due to bad technique.
Sweeping hand and breaking 180 on reloading in the revolver match. Competitor was using a snubby and clearly got his hand over the muzzle as he also broke 180.
The two safety area violations are rare but not unheard of. The safety areas at PASA are very well marked and fairly large.
Holstering or placing loaded gun on table with safety off. (I think this may be due to a number of shooters in this match not being 1911 SS primary shooters, most production guns do not have thumb safeties.)
And then the usual suspects that will occur on any large competitive match where shooters are pushing the envelope.
Several AD's during either reloading and into a wall or over the berm.
And the usual 180 violations, several on stage 1 and another on another stage. The funny thing is there were no 180 violations during the revolver match on stage 1. All that really changed was the hand position on start. Are revolver shooters safer than bottom feeders??
I hate DQs at anytime, but ultimately in order to keep our sport safe we must have strict safety rules and be willing to enforce them if violated.
Nobody that works the SS/REV Match is a DQ king/queen or RN. We try to follow the golden rule as expressed by Troy. DBAD.
Jay Worden- SS/REV RM.
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An amazing talent gone way too soon. RIP
His song "Purple Rain" came out at the time of my father's death and I have always associated it with my dad. Both are missed. RIP.
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I thought the match was the best yet, since Pete took over the MG nationals.
I was surprised at the RO's (not Mike P) reason given for not calling slug hits on the flash targets on stage 12
quote: "That would be considered coaching" even though they didn't need to be called.
It struck me funny as hell that was the standard (calling hits) for the other stages even stage 5 with 50 yards rifle flash targets.
That was our concern on stage 12 as well. It is not coaching but the CRO was adamant that it was.
Answer out of context. If the WSB does not state we will be calling hits and a shooter turns and asks if that was a hit, it could be considered coaching. I made the decision not to call hits on the steel. It was my stage and I will take the responsibility for my decision. For 290+ shooters in the match it did not seem to be an issue.
Jay
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Yeah, I went all politician and didn't opine on that issue..
Can you tell us any more about the discussion? Did anyone speak to represent the rule book, safety, and staff?
All I can say is that I was approached about creating a recommendation in the ruleset for areas to bag and unbag long guns, akin to a safe area but separate. I think this approach would cover everything from rules, to safety, to staff. As far as what happened with the RM, I am not privy to those discussions.. I know Carl did a fantastic job and safety is his highest concern. I know nothing about the incident in the OP..
I like Mike was not a witness or party to the incident(s) note by the OP. However, if you review our current USPSA MG Rules, any reference to sweeping only applies during the COF. One of the ongoing problems we have with MG in all its variations is some competitors think a long gun as just a stick. Even if a DQ was issued and I'm not saying as described it is safe gun handling in any way, it would not hold up in arbitration. Do I think that is right, no. I would also be very uncomfortable and I think the rules need cleaning up, but....
This is only my opinion.
Jay
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Rule number?The penalty for having a foot out of the shooting area, or being partially out, is for failing to comply with the stage description. I would asses the same penalty for being partially in the shooting area when the description states that you must be out.
You are either in the shooting area or out of the shooting area.
What rule says partially out or partially in?
Bret -- it'll be really simple when the RO never gives the "Are you Ready" command......
You'll know you're not in the right position, and that the RO won't proceed until you assume correct start position.....
ETA: Careful not to confuse the rules for faulting a line while shooting, with the rules governing the start position. Again -- comes down to the RO's ability to enforce a consistent -- though not necessarily identical -- start for all competitors.
And yes -- the reasons this usually doesn't come up at Level 2 or higher is a better written WSB and consistent stage staffing......
And you guys wonder why toes touching or heels against end up in WSB.
Jay
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One and the same. I'm in the same camp as those who will just load it. They only ones I throw in the scrap bucket are split, crushed case mouths, or are otherwise mangled. Haven't had a problem loading ones with worn headstamps either, they will either split or I will lose them so I don't worry about it much.
I've loaded some where the head stamp is pretty much gone and unreadable. If it does not ring (old maid) I will reload them until I either lose or it will not hold the primers anymore. I have had some drop the primers out when they drop into the plastic bin on my 650. No good fix for that.
Jay
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It would have been interesting to see the hits on the target for those that chose to shoot it when it was down. In the video it looks like the target was far enough away that 9.5.5 might come into play?
For those not familiar..
9.5.5 Enlarged holes in paper targets which exceed the competitor’s bullet diameter will not count for score or penalty unless there is visible evidence within the remnants of the hole (e.g. a grease mark or a “crown” etc.), to eliminate a presumption that the hole was caused by a ricochet or splatter.
Unless. he was shooting into a rock or concrete floor 9.5.5 will not apply. Then the splatter back may cause some scoring discussions. That rule is to prevent splatter from counting. I am sure we will be able to find evidence of a bullet hole(s). It will be elongated, but it will be scoreable.
Jay
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That's interesting you're only getting 127-128 pf at 3.6gr. I haven't used Montana Gold, but Everglades FMJ with 3.5gr of N320 at 1.135" chronoed 135pf for me at a major match out of my STI Trojan.
I have run several thousand Montana Gold 147 CMJ with 3.65 of VV320 though both my Glock 34 and Bob's XD. I run 141-142 PF and he runs 138 to 139 all day long. It has been checked at at numerous Area matches, the Indiana Sectional and Production Nationals.
You might have a slow batch, a scale issue or chrono issue. Almost all of these have been run over CED's with the infrared set-up. I have heard some times the gold color bullets can run funky if using just natural light.
Or it may just be a slow barrel, they do happen.
Jay
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I can't wait to see the 3.3 inch silly rigs. I've helped quite a few new guys that buy a holster and install every spacer that comes with it. There was a guy couple years ago at MI State that had one sticking so far out you could probably catch it on barricades leaving a position. He had modified it himself. Comical.
The other thing you guys missed is it is measured from the top of the belt. There are many shooters who are not currently in compliance measured from the top. One of the issues I have found the use of the double and triple belt set-ups has caused a number to be out of compliance. I would have prefered the SS be at 1", but that was a non-starter.
Oh well. Makes things so much easier to deal with and there is now a simple enforcement tool. Also, a penalty that is not the nucelar option of shooting for no score for the match, since the distance rule applied to all divisions.
Jay
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Front sight, plunger tube, barrel link, barrel lug in that order. SS Randall 45 ACP apx. 75000 rounds before retirement.
Now the only thing original on that gun are the frame and slide.
Jay
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Original Poster
Upon ULASC the RO said. "That target has been screwed up all morning. I would have already fixed it but the RM told all staff to not mess with the poppers and wait for a shooter to call for calibration so I have left it alone. You should have stopped It is really screwed up". The shooter replied. "Why have you not called the RM for calibration?". The RO "No one asked"
The following is only my opinion:
There are a couple of issues with the above statement. The most important one is once the stage is approved by the RM, that stage is mine. If I was told by a RM not to keep my stage in proper working order, then I would tell him to park his cart on my stage because the second that popper went out of adjustment he better be there fixing it. We teach our CRO students that keeping the stage in proper working order is their responsiblity. Making sure the poppers are properly adjusted is part of their duties. If it was broken it should have been fixed immediately. (see 4.6.1/ 4.6.2). The whole calibration system depends on the concept that the poppers are being kept in proper working order. In reality, we all know that they need to be checked at least every other squad to make sure the lock nuts have not come loose, the popper has not settled and the pins have not moved or fell out, etc. That is just part of routine stage maintenance.
As far as the reshoot is concerned, that is another issue. I would not even give you odds on how an arbitration committee would rule on this. The statement by the RO that he knew it was screwed up most likely would have resulted at best with a reshoot for the shooter and most likely would cost you a stage since you have no idea how many other shooters were affected by the malfunctioning popper. Shooters do not leave activator poppers standing because of the extreme penalties under 9.9.3. To expect a shooter to leave that popper standing and take their chances in a calibration challenge are at best wishful thinking. So the rules state if the popper is down it cannot be calibrated. I agree, but if we know the popper is bad because the RO told you it was, I would be calling the RM and asking for a reshoot under 4.6.2. The ball is now in his court and leaves you an out to arbitration.
So the RM gave an inreasonable order and the RO failed his duty by not calling to get it fixed before it malfunctioned. Especially, since the RO knew it was bad and let the shooters continue until some poor shooter got screwed and then called? Are you kidding me??
Jay
Single Stage for Bullet Puller...
in non-Dillon Reloading Equipment
Posted
Since I started loading on a rock chucker many years ago, I use it to do large quantities of bullet pulling. I ended up pulling over 500 9mm bullets after having multiple squibs due to a powder drop issue with an old style dillion powder measure. I also pulled a bunch of old 30-06 bullets to salvage the brass.
Jay