PatJones
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Posts posted by PatJones
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There are more 6 shot K & L framed 38 Cal DA revolvers in the world than all others combined.
Any shooting game that ingores that fact and plays to the minority of the minority is a doomed side show relative to revolvers in my opinion.
Craig
Many of these guns are chambered in .357 and can make major.
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Call me shocked, but you really seem to represent an outlier position. You joined USPSA last year, shot a total of 2 matches, none in Revolver, and now you are advocating complete divisional changes? Last match you were 3rd out of 4 in a division with a senior, a super senior, and a guy missing some fingers shooting a baby Glock in 10mm, who won, BTW. Good guys to be sure, but L10 is not a very competitive division here in CO. We have some very accomplished Revo shooters here in CO, just not all make it to any one match at the same time.
Maybe I am off here, but I am more and more thinking USPSA should re-focus on the core values...DVC with autopistols...and let Revo shooters shoot ICORE. I don't want a SASS, a 6, 7, and 8 shot Revo division, heck I'd be happy if Revo and L10 went away. Open, Lim, SS, Prod seems to be fine to me. We don't need to be everything to everyone, but USPSA should be the best it can be for the dedicated core shooters who have supported the sport through the years.
Wow, getting a little personal aren't we?
Yup, I joined USPSA late last year after shooting USPSA matches without a number for most of the year. I do believe I'm the shooter you're all looking to draw in. I came over from ICORE, not another USPSA division. So if I'm the shooter that everyone is looking to draw in why is my opinion worth less than yours?
There has been some disagreement here about allowing the 627's to shoot 8 minor in revolver division as it could potentially make the 625 obsolete. I simply feel that allowing a gun chambered in .357 magnum to score major in L10 is a smaller change than what has been proposed. 627's will not be taking over L10.
And to answer your accusation, yes it is very difficult to beat other shooters with a revolver while being scored minor.
-Pat Jones
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When you are the only revolver shooter at at a match, the fun comes from beating people shooting semi autos.
Isn't the whole idea to grow the Revolver? If we make changes and you are still the only one...then the cahnges are meaningless?
Fair enough.
6 shot guns are not fun for most people the way matches are currently set up. several of my friends who shoot USPSA have purchased 8 shot revolvers to come shoot ICORE with me. They could probably be persuaded to use it in USPSA occasionally if there was a better place for them.
If 8 shot minor isn't a good option, why not 8 shot major in L10?
Do we want more revolver shooters, or more shooters in revolver division?
-Pat Jones
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In my opinion 6 minor is moving in the wrong direction.
Why do you feel that way? Personal preference? 625's and 8-shot Revolvers are fringe guns. If you want numbers, don't you need to have a place for 38/357 six guns to play?
When you are the only revolver shooter at at a match, the fun comes from beating people shooting semi autos. A 6 shot gun scored minor, that's even worse than we have now.
An STI 2011 is a fringe gun too, but the matches are full of them. There will never be a lot of revolver shooters, it's harder then shooting a high capacity gun. Just let us shoot guns where we can hold our own against some of the other shooters. A 686 with speedloaders is not it.
-Pat Jones
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I wasn't at the mile high, I had to work Friday and Saturday . I shot the monthly competition in Weld on Sunday in limited 10 with my 627.
The competition in weld had 4 revo shooters. Two were shooting their ICORE open guns, i was the only shooter in L10 and there was one shooter in revo with a 625.
I shoot L10 because I don't want to take my racemaster off my belt.
In these small categories I'm trying to move up the overall standings since there is no one to shoot against. In my opinion 6 minor is moving in the wrong direction.
I'm happy in limited 10 but PLEASE allow me to score major in 357 brass. It is safe to do so, this is not 9 major.
-Pat Jones
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BTT.
The 2013 match is coming up, June 29-30th. I dropped my registration in the mail this morning.
Should be a great match, come out and play.
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I encountered a similar problem with a customers gun. It was a pain to track down because it was very intermittent.
There was a burr at the front of one the cylinder notches. When we release the trigger, the stop resets by moving forward and then to the rear where the trigger can pull it down again. On the revolver in question, the burr would hold the stop in its forward position and the trigger could not pull it down to disengage it.
Take out your stop and try it for fit in each of your cylinder notches. Your notches look to be in good shape, but check each one for fit.
-pat
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The trigger stud may be crooked, it doesn't take much to make things rub.
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Just now I ordered 2000 cast bullets from Colorado Cast Bullets. In stock and shipping tomorrow.
I've had good luck with their .38 + .44 cal stuff in the past.
http://sanjuanrange.com/ccb.htm
-pat
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That's a factory-fit part isn't it?
-Pat
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You know my old Colt Trooper MKIII didn't block the hammer with the cylinder open. You could snap away all day with an open cylinder, that's how it was designed. Would that pass this guys function test?
-pat
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Are any of these ICORE clubs in your area?
http://www.icore.org/ClubList.html
Classic division is the equivalent of production.
-pat
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I'm trading for a 5" 625 so I'm trying to scare up loading components. I've not been able to find Federal large pistol primers but I have a lead on Federal large pistol magnums. I also have a 1000 CCI large pistol primers I've been using in the .44.
Two questions.
I assume the Magnum Primers will have a thicker cup and be less sensitive than the standard Federal primers. Anyone have experience with The magnums in a revo with lightened springs? They have to be easier to pop than the CCIs.
Powder is a bit scarce too. I have some Clays and Unique. I'm leaning towards the Unique as I'm concerned about the combo of magnum primers and Clays spiking pressures. Any thoughts?
-pat
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I might add that some of these cylinder stop notch peening problems are caused--at least in part--by excessive roughness in slamming the gun shut during dryfire reload drills. You don't have to baby them, but some of the handling i have seen from a few of you monkeys is truly cringe-worthy.
Go a little easy.We need a "like" button a la Facebook.
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If the rules stay the way things are, would there be a possibility of the 2014 revolver nationals allowing us to register for L10 and shoot out 8 shot revos? No Autos allowed.
-pat
Just bumping to open in a revolver only match would accomplish the same thing.
Good point, but I would be more likely to travel to shoot with my 8-shot if I wasn't shooting in a class alone. Otherwise it is no different than for a local mach.
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If the rules stay the way things are, would there be a possibility of the 2014 revolver nationals allowing us to register for L10 and shoot out 8 shot revos? No Autos allowed.
-pat
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What I really don't get is this: Why are we having this discussion in USPSA when ICORE exists? Eight shots? Check. Minor only? Check. Speedloader division? Check. Big National match with great prizes? Check. Open Division for the bad eyesight crowd? Check. Regional matches with prizes and lots of competition? Check.
Here's the big question: What is it that USPSA has that you want, that's different from ICORE?
I am fortunate to live in an area that has a local ICORE match each month, many folks do not have that option.We don't get as big a turnout as the local USPSA matches do, 18 is a big month. With fewer shooters we set up fewer stages, usually a field course and a speed course with a couple plate racks. We shoot each one multiple times.
I really do enjoy shooting USPSA. When 75-80 shooters show the matches are bigger, there's more stages and more people to shoot with. I would always choose the ICORE match first because they're our people, but I might enjoy the USPSA matches more.
-pat
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Look. The I don't really think the number of revolver shooters at the nationals is important. If there are enough people shooting this division at the grassroots level the Nationals will take care of themselves. What changes will increase the number of shooters at the monthly club matches? Personally I feel that allowing 8 shot minor has real potential to grow the division.
-pat
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If there were a bunch of 8-shot revo owners out there just dying to shoot USPSA, they'd be shooting them in Production already.
That has been my point for the last 5 years this conversation has been going on. If you want to make a change, show up and shoot and if there are numbers the powers that be will address it. The only effort I have seen so far is guys posting from behind their computers. If you want a change, show up and be counted.. "Talk is cheap and it takes money to buy whiskey," to quote Dave Moss.
I would like a demonstration that there is a group who want to shoot their 8 shooters other than sitting at a keyboard and typing. I go to a lot of matches and I don't see anyone doing it.
Show me some actual evidence that there is a need for a place to shoot 8 shot revo's in USPSA.
WELD COUNTY PRACTICAL SHOOTERS December 2012
Production 5 Patrick J 15 Minor 353.9294 67.723
AGC 12/02/12
Production 11 Patrick J 42 Minor 291.0114 62.999%
Weld County Practical Shooters November 2012
Production 5 Patrick J 15 Minor 300.0943 68.295%
AGC 11/04/12
Production 7 Patrick J 9 Minor 276.4599
74.853%
I could go on..
I know I'm easy to miss... my scores blend in with all the bottom feeders. If you weren't on my squad you would have missed me completely.
-Pat Jones
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Let's get real. 6-shot revolvers are never going to be competitive if Revolver Division is modified to allow 8-shot revolvers.
So what if they aren't? Why do they have to be?
Yes, why do 6 shot revolvers need to be competitive in Revolver division? Because you own one? We all do.
Where would the sport be if open class was limited to single stack guns? Sports progress.
8 shot guns are _allowed_ in production but there is a big difference between a 6lb trigger with a 1/2 inch of movement and a 2.5 lb M&P trigger with a short reset. 8 shots vs 10+1. They will never be truly competitive.
Which one of these is not like the others?
-pat
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So 8 shot revolvers are allowed in all the classes but single stack and REVOLVER class. Now that makes sense. We need to put the 8 shooters where they're supposed to be, in revolver class.
Exactly how I feel.
I predict that the rules will change to allow it soon because I've arranged to trade my 547 for a 5" 625.
-pat
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If there were a bunch of 8-shot revo owners out there just dying to shoot USPSA, they'd be shooting them in Production already.
I do shoot my 627 in production and I beat 50% of the other production shooters at nearly every local match, but I would rather it say "revolver" next to my name in the overall.
I stand by my oft-repeated contention that moving from a division where only three or four guns are possibly competitive to a division where only a single gun is competitive is a negative,
I don't see a difference. What we have now is a division where there is only one competitive gun; a 5" 625. A gun that is no longer produced.
The division was rationalized at the onset as an entry level division where someone could get started in USPSA shooting one of the plethora of revolvers extant in shooters hands.
I don't see Revo as an entry level division. The barrier to revolvers is not the reloads, it's the trigger, and the effort it takes to master it.
Wasn't power factor devised as a way to _balance_ the advantage of the higher capacity 9mm autoloaders? Aside from Production, which scores everyone minor, Revolver is the only division that does not offer a capacity advantage to those who chose to shoot a smaller caliber. Admittedly 9mm major is allowed in open.
If we allow revolvers with a capacity in excess of 6 to shoot to capacity but scored minor it brings us in line with SS, Limited and L10. If it does create a class where one revolver is more competitive than the others it will be no different than what we have now, but that revolver will be current production. If you want new shooters, the competitive gun must be commercially available.
Finally, as Carmoney said, shooting USPSA with an 8-shot revolver is fun. For many people, shooting 8 round friendly courses with a 6 shooters is not fun. If Revolver division is more fun for more people the numbers will increase.
I vote yes.
-pat
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Check your cylinder notches for burrs. I had a customers gun with a burr at the front of one notch that prevented the cylinder stop from resetting. The stop moves forward when the trigger resets. The burr was preventing it from returning to the rear where the trigger could pull it down for the next cycle, locking up the action.
-pat
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I don't trust loctite alone to hold adjustment over time. I like the strain screw tightened down against it's seat.
I try and maintain as much mainspring tension as possible given the desired trigger pull. I am not looking for the lightest possible pull, but the most reliable ignition.
I am using the C&S firing pin in my gun and I have used the Apex competition pin in customers guns and I haven't seen a difference at 6-7 pound pulls. I find it easy to short stroke the trigger at exceedingly light pull weights. I do not dry fire practice at home, I occasionally snap on empties at the range.
-pat
Go a little easy.
Setting up a 627 for USPSA, what do you guys recommend...
in Revolver Forum
Posted
The thicker moon clips offer a much better reload, just keep in mind they only fit particular brands of brass. I use Remington brass with mine, Winchester will not work.
What brand of brass you you already have?