PatJones
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Posts posted by PatJones
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Have any of you thought all of this through?
There are a number of classifiers that have _always_ been unfair to the 6 shooters. I know we only "compete within our division" but we all look at the combined results. Part of the fun of shooting Production or any of the other restricted divisions is beating others who have more "competitive" equipment.
Now that modern firearms are being introduced to Revolver division we have to deal with this.
Yes, there are several ways to "fix" these classifier problems that have always existed. We could require all revolvers to reload after 6 shots on classifiers, but that would make Revolver the only division that cannot use the additional rounds in their firearm to make up misses on steel. Not all classifiers are Virginia count.
The other option is to set new High Hit Factors for these classifiers. The classifiers that have required a reload after 7 can be changed to specify a reload before 8. This would not effect the HHF for the other divisions but it will change it for Revolver. This takes time.
I suspect the BOD is leaning towards the second solution. Revolver nationals are coming up on May 4th, new HHFs can be set at that time. If you would all just relax I'm sure this will be sorted out in time.
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I just feel like we have all gotten really sensitive about this and, although the discussions are revolver related, they are more questions of rules than the division equipment and wish they were in the rules forum. Just an opinion.
-Lee
+1
Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk
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If Y'all come to our regional ICORE match in June I will bring beer for after the shoot off on Sunday! That's one benefit to running a fairly large craft brewery:)
Aaaa why do all the majors I want to shoot happen at once?
What other major conflicts with the Rocky Mountain Regional? Is there an official date yet? It's usually the last weekend of June.
Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk
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Does it carry up with fired cases in the cylinder?
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The dents that didn't go bang are the impacts you are getting on all 8. When it does go bang the primer backs out into the firing pin enlarging the dent. When the powder lights off the cartridge sets back and pushes the primer back in.
If you hook a trigger pull gauge over the hammer what weight are you getting? I hook the gauge under the lip below the flat that contacts the firing pin and pull it back gently until the front of the hammer is even with the front of the lock cut.
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It does sound like it is a failure to carry up. This can be caused by several problems including wear. Check for a bent yoke before swapping parts.
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While I agree with Carmony here, this is getting a bit too personal. Would any of you behave like this to each other in person?Exactly. Enough with the sour grapes routine.
Let's get back to the topic of what you're bringing to nationals. I won't be there as that is my first wedding anniversary.
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So we haven't heard anything with 3 days left before the rules change. Does this mean we're just gonna go with the classifiers the way they are?
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TGO, have you played with 38 special cut to .900?
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What gear do you have right now?
The spring steel 45 moonclsupportlders from California competition works will work with the 8-shot moons, but you hang them off the front of the holder with just a couple rounds inside. I wouldn't buy them, but if you already have them....
I choose the double alpha holster due to the lack of muzzle support. I like my crown. The muzzle supports are generally made from a soft material, but as dirt and dust are slowly ground into the plastic you now have sandpaper. This is how you make a lap.
Remington and federal brass are usually your best options a they have the thickest groove. This allows for thicker moonclips.
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Two guys thinking about starting is "tangible positive movement"?I think the point of this thread is not to rehash the whole debate, but to point out that there already seems to be some tangible positive movement created by the rule change being implemented.
I was cornered at the match this weekend by someone I've never seen with a revolver. He wanted to know if my shop could get him a 929 so he can shoot revo division.
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Flexmoney, when would the BOD make their decision on the classifiers.
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Over half of the current classifiers are 6 reload 6. A major gun will have an advantage on these. That's ok. If we set new HHF on the others, an 8-shot will have an advantage there. If it turns out to be a _really_ big disadvantage shooting 6, it will be flagged and not used to calculate your classification anyway.
I don't think they will go that way though, so let's discuss the other 2 options.
If we delete all the >6 shot classifiers, the other divisions have fewer classifiers to shoot. I did hear an open shooter last summer say that he felt all classifiers should be 6 reload 6 so maybe they won't mind.
If we restrict all revolvers to 6 before a reload on the classifier, what is the punishment for a brain fart? We've all clicked on an empty, do we bump them to open? That hardly seems fair. We certainly couldn't submit an oops to national for use, but is there an additional penalty? If there is no bump to open, how does the match director know from the score sheets that a mistake was made?
It'd much like Production:
"maximum 10 rounds loaded in any magazine"
So even though your box-stock Master Blaster XTQ holds 15 or 17 or 19, you can only load 10 to compete in Production division. Its an artificial restriction to level the playing field so everyone who shoots has an equal chance at least as far as the number of rounds.
But for revolvers, its only for the Classifiers.
The 8 shooter revolvers still get to load 8 for the other stages.
Or only fire 6. Either way.
Classifiers -- revolvers load 6.
Then nothing that is happening now has to change.
Every other person who plays this game can continue doing so without interruption.
We don't have to discard any Classfiers.
Its easy.
I think expecting someone to click through 2 empty chambers after the reload is a bit unreasonable.
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Over half of the current classifiers are 6 reload 6. A major gun will have an advantage on these. That's ok. If we set new HHF on the others, an 8-shot will have an advantage there. If it turns out to be a _really_ big disadvantage shooting 6, it will be flagged and not used to calculate your classification anyway.
I don't think they will go that way though, so let's discuss the other 2 options.
If we delete all the >6 shot classifiers, the other divisions have fewer classifiers to shoot. I did hear an open shooter last summer say that he felt all classifiers should be 6 reload 6 so maybe they won't mind.
If we restrict all revolvers to 6 before a reload on the classifier, what is the punishment for a brain fart? We've all clicked on an empty, do we bump them to open? That hardly seems fair. We certainly couldn't submit an oops to national for use, but is there an additional penalty? If there is no bump to open, how does the match director know from the score sheets that a mistake was made?
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I've thought about shooting classic occasionally. Are round nose bullets as important as it is with moons? I've not found a true round nose bullet in .44.
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We have an interesting situation in revolver now.
For many of us it will be easier to break the stages down with an 8-shooter, and this will give us an advantage in the match.
If we limit the classifiers to 6 reload 6, the 6-shooter with major scoring will have a real advantage.
All of this is fine, but you may find yourself making a decision as to whether you want to finish higher in the overall or increase your classification.
I do shoot a 627, but it would be my inclination to leave most of the classifiers alone but set the high hit factor appropriately. You could certainly cherry pick 6 classifiers that favor the 8-shooters but the same is true of the major scoring 6-shooters.
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I'm shooting the Rocky Mountain 300 and the ICORE Rocky Mountain Regional. I would also like to hit one out of state match, anyone want to carpool out of Colorado?
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Alex, there is a drawing in there showing where the seat should point in relation to the hand pivot. I would compare that to your gun before you start work. You may need to do a little of each, let out and shorten.
Was your trigger cam modified prior to installation of the new sear? I only polish them and break the edge with a white Arkansas stone. If it was shortened to correct stubbing on the previous sear you may need a new trigger.
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My initial thought is that out could be let out a bit. There is a nice picture of how much to let the sear out to in the Kuhnhausen book. Mine is at work, maybe someone else can post that for you don't have a copy.
Looking at your pictures the cam surface on the trigger looks like it slopes back a lot. Has this been altered?
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In a sport where you reload on the clock there is an advantage to the L frame guns. When the cylinder is open it is further from the side of the revolver compared to the K frame, this provides more clearance for speedloaders. It is a side effect of the gun being slightly larger. If I was you I'd look for a 4 inch 686.
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Not all of those had springs in them. As noted above, it's supposed to wriggle.
If you are getting off center fitting pin strikes, out is likely out of time. Parts are getting hard to come by for these older guns as Smith & Wesson have discontinued their manufacture. I'd have it checked out by a competent smith before you damage it by shooting an out of spec gun.
You can check for proper carry up by pulling the hammer slowly to full cock. The cylinder stop should engage before the hammer cocks. You should also check barrel to cylinder alignment with a range rod, and you should check for a bent yoke. The typical shooter doesn't have the tools for the last two.
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I did a Ti cylinder today.
Tomorrow I tackle the .38 Super. Wish me luck. Also, I don't feel like starting a new topic, but for those running a JM mainspring with the spur still on, what rebound spring do you use for ~6# trigger with all the normals (Fed well seated, Starline etc.)? I addressed a few small areas in the action and when I put the kit in and set the strain screw to 6# the rebound spring seemed heavy. I am not opposed to clipping coils if that is the solution, but I don't know the weight of the spring in his kit either. Thanks,
Lee
11 pound rebound with 2 coils cut off.
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There's no such thing as free lunch. A little gun with a full sized cartridge is less comfortable to shoot.
In my opinion, you do need to shoot your carry gun more than one a year. I have a steel J frame now after wearing out an aluminum one.
A high grip offers more recoil control, but the gun comes straight back into your hand. A low grip offers less control, but the muzzle flip dissipates some recoil energy. All revolvers benefit from a stronger grip than what one typically uses on an auto.
Keep shooting it'll get better. I was afraid of my .44 the first month I owned it.
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I have personally seen a benchrest rifle that was grouping poorly tighten up it's groups when mass and spring tension were both added to the firing pin. Marginal primer ignition does exist, but it is certainly open to discussion as to whether we can see it in our game.
Next time you have the chronograph at the range, tighten up your strain screw and chrono your ammunition again. Marginal ignition will show up on the chronograph. I have done this and I picked up an increase of about 5 on my power factor with an extra 1/2 pound of trigger pull.
A lighter trigger pull is a shooter aid that may be partially offset by marginal ignition if taken too far.
A request to reinstate pulled classifiers
in USPSA/IPSC Rules
Posted · Edited by PatJones
We have a unique situation in Revolver, it is the only division where shooting minor may provide an advantage over major. That said the Major scoring will provide a real advantage on classifiers that are 6-shot neutral.
A revolver shooter currently needs to make a decision at the beginning of a match: "Do I want to maximize my classification or my overall placement in the match?" You could certainly choose 6 classifiers that would favor the 8-shot guns but the majority of the classifiers favor 6-shot major scoring. Your classification is an average of the highest 6 of your most recent 8 scores. I think enough of this will average out to reinstate many of the missing classifiers.