hornetx40
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Posts posted by hornetx40
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They should all face the shooter. It's the safest way.
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This section should be required reading just for the reloading mistakes. good stuff
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"Given that USPSA is running WSSC I would fully expect the stages to be set up perfectly. "
Zack what I am getting at is there is no guidance on how the targets should face in the rules. So there is confusion and disagreement on the subject and differences from one range to another. It has been an ongoing issue for years.I just want it laid out in the rules so there is no disagreement. I don't care what the rule says, just that we all play fairly by the same rules.
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How they are set at WSSC is irrelevant, unless they are done by a consensus of the sanctioning body. What we need is a way to set the targets the same all of the time. It evidently needs to be part of the rules for stage layout.
The safest way is to have each target facing the shooting box. A target that is perpendicular to the shooter allows the bullet to impact more force on the target and not ricocheting at an angle. We need the board to set forth a rule so its always the same at each club.
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Try Talon
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I was under the impression that for low ready starts you are allowed to get a sight picture of all the targets initially but one you load up and chamber a round you are only allowed to sight picture the target you will be shooting first for the start and the other runs (might be NSSF since I shoot that a lot also).
nothing in the rule differentiates between a holstered start and a low ready start. But as it currently reads the R.O. may not allow more sight pictures after the first string. Zack , I think, is rewording that part and taking it to the board......
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Zack I shot with Karl a bunch. He loves Zig-Zag and it was always the tighter version. The two versions you are talking about are really different. Thats a good thing.
I really agree with the boards thinking on the stages. Leave the 8 stages alone. and run outlaw stages with sanctioned ones if you want.
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TACSOL is an excellent choice for Steel challenge. If you had to do speed mag changes I would say the M&P 15 22 is a better choice due to ease of fast mag changes. TacSol also sponsors a lot of shooters and Junior shooters. It's nice to support our sponsors. The X- Ring is a great action with the double recoil spring guides it keeps the bolt running true and closes square. They can turn a gun out in a short amount of time.
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Zack Every club has the ability to use whatever stages they want, but can't report them to SCSA unless it is a sanctioned properly set stage. So with out changing anything, and keeping things fair, those same clubs that don't have the distance to shoot O/L or Speed option can use reduced target sizes and set the stages reduced. They are just outlaw stages.
I don't see how you could allow them to be classified the same as full size stages. Closer targets are easier to see hits and hear them.
The one thing I don't want to see happen is that stages start getting changed that would force clubs to buy more sizes than the current 3.
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I don't want SCSA to become Pro-am or USPSA. They are separate types of shooting and each has its own merits. Yes SCSA is a gateway to USPSA and 3 gun and that's fine. Many steel challenge shooters also shoot USPSA but many do not. I like it the way it is because I am not running around stages, but still have the movement on outer limits. It is the drag racing of shooting and although I may never be a GM I still enjoy the hell out of it the way it is. The new classification system just made it even better.
If you added movement you would just drive a lot of long time shooters away.
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Decreasing the size of speed option and outer limits would be the most logical first step. Many shooters don't get to shoot them often because clubs don't have the distance to shoot them.
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any target with bolts heads showing or holes thru the targets cause a ton of problems .Bolt heads ,even the domed ones, are dangerous and cause splash back. Targets hung from any type of hole cause issues with seeing the hit , dead hits, and thru hooks cause splash back.
At large matches where a lot of shooters will shoot the targets over a couple of days its best to put down a hay bale at the base of each target. Most of the bullet fragments collect beneath the target and the hay bale gives the a spot to bury into. The ground just collect a bunch of them then they become secondary missiles.
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There is no stress in a match. It is just another practice session. If anything it should be less stressful than practice. You should be pushing in practice to find your absolute fastest and back of to about 80 % in a match. You can't run 100% in a match or you will have to many extra shots.
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5.3.1.2 Sight Pictures: The competitor will have a maximum of two minutes after the Make Ready command to prepare for the run. Sight pictures may be taken during the Make Ready process and while preparing for the next string.
If you guys see anything wrong with it let me know.
Zach Your change to the rule is good.
I was told that the old rule was written that way because some shooters would take 2 minutes on every run of a stage. I haven't seen this much in the last 5 years.
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Rule 3.1.2
Sight Pictures: The competitor will have a maximum of two minutes after the Make Ready command to prepare themselves for the run, sight pictures will only be done at this time. Exception would be for the Range Officer to offer additional sight pictures at their discretion.
This rule is under range commands. This is the only rule That has anything to do with it...somewhat. Many shooters will take multiple draws with a loaded gun during the make ready...nothing wrong with that. A lot of rimfire shooters will take a sight picture before each run to set their body then point the gun at the start point. Both are legal.
There is no rule about unholstering a loaded gun. The RO was incorrect.
The important part here is to do like Nimitz said. Let your RO know what you are doing and you will stay out of trouble. I won't touch a gun ....holstered or in a bag at the beginning of a stage until the RO tells me to make ready. That is a rule and to many shooters break it.
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Classic GM Trigger Kit
I agree. Vanek Classic Grandmaster is Fantastic and 100% Reliable..
I agree I have his GSSF legal triggers in a bunch of guns .
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If our classifications were based only on match performance I'd probably drop to D based on my last major
. No system is perfect, including this one, but we'll keep working on it to make it better as time goes on.Zack Thank You for all of the work you are doing. I also understand that with all stages not being shot at each match it would be almost impossible to classify shooters by entire match instead of each stage. My statement was more or less an observation. Master and GM should be difficult to attain. They are the Pinnacle of our sport.
The new system is good and with more data and time it will only get better. It is nice to finally have a classification system.
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Nice work. this proves what I am thinking. I would bet that most shooters other than GM's have rarely shot an entire match in their current classification. This system will give shooters a higher classification than they can really shoot. Why because few can reproduce those scores on every stage at every match.
I'm not trying to start a fire here just pointing out a different way to look at this. You aren't really an A class shooter until you can produce an entire match at A class
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Shooters Connection is a great place to purchase what we need. His prices are better than most and he supports our sports
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Here is how the new rule should read:
"Competitors may shoot the same gun in the same division a second time for no official score with Match Director approval if slots are available and time allows. The second run shall be scored under an alias such that there is no confusion regarding official scoring. The Match Director shall select an appropriate alias for the competitor based on his/her knowledge of the competitors character and or other relevant attributes, personal habits, etc."
Well maybe this
At Level 1 matches competitors may shoot the same gun in the same division a second time for no official score with Match Director approval if slots are available and time allows. The second run shall be scored under an alias such that there is no confusion regarding official scoring.
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I don't understand the issue here. Why not allow a shooter to shoot the same division twice. You use the first fired entry as a score and the second just gets thrown out. It just a practice run if the squad sizes allow , The MD allows and the club gets to make a little extra money.
I do agree at a Level 2 and above match that it should not be allowed
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Since there is no rule against it currently, both scores are legitimate. The only problem is when a shooter starts posting scores above their ability to repeat. I would say this would have to be at the match directors discretion. I have done this just to get more practice with one gun. I would think that your first entry should be your match score. It is the fair way to do it. Maybe this should be addressed in the rules.
I don't see an issue with refiring a gun in the same division as long as the first score is the match score. The refire would give the match and SCSA more money. This should only be allowed if there is room on the squads....and we are back to a MD's discretion.
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Zack thanks for all of the work you are doing. Maybe the target sizes should be addressed also
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MGM Targets are not extended in size to utilize the hook cap. They have a hole in the plate.
. No system is perfect, including this one, but we'll keep working on it to make it better as time goes on.
Stages
in Steel Challenge
Posted
Zack, Let me explain. There is a difference between a target facing parallel to the box and facing the shooter. If the targets are facing the shooters, then the surface of the plate is perpendicular to the bullet flight. That allows the bullet to impact squarely on the plate and have the best chance to disintegrate. Any angle off of perpendicular allows the bullet energy to push off at an angle. often going on to other stages. That's why I want the target faces perpendicular to the angle of the bullet flight. Its safer. and hay bales or a pile of loose dirt at the base of the target also stops a lot of the pieces from coming back at the shooters, RO's and other shooters.