michael1778
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Posts posted by michael1778
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When did you grab that story you linked because at 6:43pm EST on 26 December 2015 the rifle has a different listed configuration. It is as follows:
- Barrel: 14.5” PROOF Research carbon fiber wrapped barrel, 1:8 twist. PROOF Research barrels are up to 64% lighter than traditional steel barrels.
- Trigger: AR Gold set at 1.75lbs.
- Optic: Leupold Optics VX-6 1-6x24mm with MultiGun reticle
- Compensator: Armalite 3-Gun Brake. This compensator can be tuned to the individual shooter.
- Lower receiver: MAG Tactical Systems. The MAG Tactical Systems lower receiver is 35% lighter than a standard aluminum lower receiver.
- Rail: Armalite 3-Gun Free Float Rail
- Bolt Carrier Group: JP low mass carrier with JP enhanced bolt
- Buffer: JP low mass buffer with JP spring
- Stock: TACMOD AR15 buttstock
- Gas system: JP low profile, mid-length, adjustable gas system
- Scope mount: Leupold Mark 2 IMS
Notice that the compensator and rail are both different. I have to wonder how much involves sponsorship or other affililation arrangements between either Mr. or Mrs. Horner. Or perhaps it's more chasing performance? BTW, I've been on the same squad as Mrs. Horner and had many opportunities to interact with her socially at the match. I didn't know who she was. She was very nice and seemed approachable, well-grounded, etc. So, I don't mean for my comments to be misinterpreted as negative against either of them.
Proof barrels in their AR profiles and lengths suited for 3-gun are not significantly lighter than all steel versions. Once you get to 20"+ lengths for 308 and related calibers you begin to see more significant savings. For long bolt gun barrels it can be very impressive. Just ask Proof yourself, like I did.
In the end, I'm really only posting since the list you showed as coming from the article and the one I read a few minutes ago have those small differences. I found that odd and unexpected.
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Bringing up a necro thread, but I ordered my fluted melonite this evening. I've got a hankering for a 16" 3 gun rifle build and this barrel seemed to be the ticket. My current 3-gun rifle has a Nordic 18", looking forward to the comparison in shooting. The nordic is very, very smooth shooting.
I'd be interested in your comparisons between those two. I hope that you enjoy the new barrel. I'm excited about the 308 Win version of the same.
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Stock, handguard, barrel, and optic mount very likely will drive the total weight of your build more strongly than the receiver set. Have you already selected those components and that is why you are down to shaving a couple of ounces off of a receiver set?
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Michael, it's time to bust out the cc and call Dustin at JP!
That would be nice, but not until a new job in early 2016. I'm stuck in planning mode until then, at the soonest. Actually, some of my unused gear is about to go for sale. No safe queens allowed.
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yep, pulled the whole assembly out and put it on the scale.
Again, thank you very much.
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Just weighed my JP LMOS from my LRP07 and it was 14.39oz
Including the bolt? That's excellent. That carrier with the new high pressure bolt is (and has been) the front runner in this search.
Thank you.
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I am in the design phase for a shared lower with two uppers LR-308 pattern rifle. One upper would be 16"-18" 308 for Heavy Metal 3-gun. The other upper would be in 6.5 or 6 Creedmoor. I would like to do low mass internals as well as adjustable gas. SLR adjustable gas blocks and a JP captured spring system are fixed into the design. Those aren't up for discussion. I mention them in case that changes your recommendations.
Besides JP, Rhino, and Rubber City Armory, who else make a 308 bolt carrier that would be worth investigating for my two uses? One of the makers has replied to me with their BCG weight (including bolt). Anybody got measured weights on these makers I have listed or for your recommended maker's product? Thank you for your assistance.
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Daniel Horner runs a VX-6. He seems to do well with it.
Yes he has...and several other scopes just as well.
Exactly, he has been very successful with different calibers, barrels lengths, gas systems, barrel materials, handguards, socks, sighting systems, etc., etc.
Daniel is as far removed from me in 3-gun (or any shooting sport) as I am from him as a spacecraft engineer. So, he shouldn't look at my "gear" or solution methods in engineering too closely. Likewise, I should keep in mind that he could use a sling shot and a baseball bat and get better 3-gun results than I can. Just the nature of the things. There may be merit in him using something, but it may not be translatable to me and my abilities.
To the original post question, I'd go with the Burris 1-5x.
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This suggestion has merit, in my opinion. My only modification would be that cheating would be a match DQ or some other actual sanction. If you start in the division you accept the risks that a target presentation may be "frustrating."
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Yea but it also goes 2x higher on the top end and you can dial with ease if you want. Both are great scopes and I own both.Looks like the FOV is 10% less on 1x versus the razor. I like a big FOV!
Pat
But 95% of the shooting we do in 3-gun is on 1X.
For the matches near me, the time on 1x is less. We have many targets out long. But, this type of analysis of an optic is very instructional to all of us. Knowing how to match equipment to requirements is important.
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While either of those will work, I much prefer the SLR as I feel it's a better design. Adjustable from the front, no set screw to mess with, distinctive clicks, and easy to clean if necessary. I've been using them on several rifles for a couple years.
http://slrrifleworks.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=57_103_104&product_id=124
The 308 Win and 6.5 Creedmoor uppers I am designing will have SLR blocks, no doubt.
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Definitely see the difference in the second video.
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Running nice and smooth
You aren't kidding!! Very smooth shooting.
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Just ordered an Armalite M15 VSR 18". I'm a big fan of Eotech due to ease of view. Even with astigmatism the reticle doesn't fuzz enough to bug me. My times improved dramatically going from a 1-4 scope to an Eotech. Where it sucked was in the long game. I only do local matches and the longest we do is 125 yards. Was looking at TA11F ACOGs (better eye relief) but the reticle does bother me, otherwise it would be perfect. Trying not to spend more than the ACOG. I added a Eotech magnifier to the Eotech (never got a chance to use in a match) but It was nice at the long game when being sighted in. The weight was too much though. I was using a Ruger SR 556 at the time. With the rifle loaded and Eotech and magnifier, the rifle was a hefty 13#.
What did you have for a 1-4x before moving to the EOtech?
125 yards isn't very long at all. My first match was out to 225 yards and I muddled through with a Leupold Prismatic. The base shifted on me. That was my problem, not it being 1x. Therefore, I'm thinking some practice with the EOtech for 125 yard and shorter shots could be a better way to go. You said that the EOtech "sucked" for the "long game". Again 125 yards isn't long, but exactly why did you think it sucked? Exactly what was not working for you when you used it? Is it really a problem with your rifle's zero?
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Have you seen the JP program to back up LE users that have their rifles impounded as evidence in Officer Involved Shootings? Ah, here it is. Called "We've Got Your Back" (http://jprifles.com/1.2.4_LE.php)
Given that program, perhaps calling them up for a design consultation might be in order? If you go with one they build you would have coverage if you ever had to use it in the line of duty. I don't know how the prices would come out for that option compared to the other ways we have been discussing. I bet something like John Paul used in the past year or so in this video (
) might be of interest. That concept expanded into a written piece about 5.56mm SBRs this summer (http://blog.shooting-performance.com/john-paul-the-subject-matter-expert-on-short-barreled-rifles-sbrs/).Whichever way you go, I hope it serves you well and faithfully. Be safe.
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.223_Wylde
223 Wylde chambering is available from a wide assortment of rifle and barrel makers. My Criterion barrel Open/Unlimited rifle has it.
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When I design/sketch defense rifle ideas, I never consider using an adjustable gas block. Is this for a LE "work" gun?
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I had some follower binding in an early production Surefire 60 round model. I set it aside and decided to concentrate on rifle fundamentals for a while. I can come back to troubleshooting it if I ever need capacity like that.
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Agreed. The Pic rail along the entire top length doesn't seem to be useful in either 3-gun or precision rifle applications.
Steve, where exactly should that soft pad be mounted on the handguard? I'm imagination challenged today and am not sure where it should go in relation to the bipod mount point.
Great post, my friend. I learned a bunch in just a few sentences!
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Given how brief the dwell time is on the geometry, I can't see how an adjustable gas block will help. rifle-length gas systems on this short of a barrel have had problems being natively under-gassed, from my understanding. I think you would be wasting y our money *and* adding a more complex failure point in your rifle operating system.
What you say sounds like it would be correct but my own experiences differ. I am currently running a 16" rifle gas barrel and have had no issues with under gassing. I started with an 18" rifle gas barrel and had ADCO cut it back to 16", so the gas port is set for a 18" dwell time, not 16". Like you I assumed an adjustable gas block would be a waste of time but when I put the barrel on the gun all I had on hand was a Seekins adjustable so I used it. As it turns out I was able to turn it down quite a bit. My complete system is a 16" rifle gas Mega Arms barrel, Seekins adjustable gas block, JP JPTRE-2S comp, JP LMOS Stainless bolt carrier and Vltor A-5 recoil system. I tune my guns to PMC 55gr ball as this is the softest recoiling of the ammo I use.
Great feedback and sharing your experiences, thank you. I found it educational. I wonder how the gas port dimensions compare? I enjoyed your comments and feedback.
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Thanks for the responses so far. Sounds like I definitely want to try one. My concern is the reliability of the 16" barrel with the rifle gas. I was planning on building with a SLR adjustable gas block, and probably a JP LMOS BCG, although the AIM light weight BCG seems appealing at the price point.
Given how brief the dwell time is on the geometry, I can't see how an adjustable gas block will help. rifle-length gas systems on this short of a barrel have had problems being natively under-gassed, from my understanding. I think you would be wasting y our money *and* adding a more complex failure point in your rifle operating system.
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Net new rifle is what this would be. I want two uppers: one for 6.5 Creedmoor and the other for Heavy Metal 3-gun (308 16"-18" barrel)
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Michael, 1moa is not going to be good enough. I read a pretty long article by Brian Litz, and with a lot of scientific evidence that I'm sure you would enjoy, his number for PRS is .7". Anything under that is awesome, but that is what you need. I wish I could remember where the article was, it has been several months since I read it. I'm also trying to pull info out of a brain that is heavily influenced by oxycodone. It's like trying to swim through pea soup.
Also just read a review on one of his 223 barrels. Several groups fired, .75 was the best, the average was around 1.3". The writer was very pleased as he was hoping to get at least 2moa. wow.
I'm in complete agreement that sub-MOA will be the requirement. I hope the recovery goes well.
JP, they have the experience the quality and some of the best customer service in the industry. Have a question, just give them a call and talk to a tech who is an actual shooter and knows what you are talking about. I just bought one of their 6mm Creedmoor barrels and look forward to 1000+ yard shooting pleasure.
Doug
Certainly they have the reputation and I have always been impressed with their products that I own or have seen in use. If I had my way, I'd just have them build an LRP-07 for me in 6.5 and be done with it. But that is too costly for me. I have had it on my To Do list to call in and talk to somebody about their barrel profiles. I really don't understand what hey are going for with the skinny profile under the handguard. I'll try to have them explain it to me. It was exciting to see them offer the 6mm option as a basic factory option. :-) I think I'll stick with 6.5mm but it shows the gains these calibers are making in the marketplace.
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Old thread, I know. But it hasn't been updated, so I thought I would contribute.
Ballistic Advantage also makes a very nice AR10 barrel for the 6.5 CM in 18", 20", and 22" lengths. They offer the barrel in. "Hansen" profile. Which is like a straight taper bolt gun barrel. It's essentially made like most of the other barrels out there in 416R stainless steel and button rifling. They offer a 1" MoA guarantee as well. So they have some confidence in their quality.
It's worth taking a look.
http://ballisticadvantage.com/22-inch-6-5-rifle-ss-premium-barrel.html
Thanks for the information and the prompt. I'll go check out that option shortly. Since my last update, I was leaning heavily toward a 22" Criterion from Creedmoor Sports with a .875" gas block. It looks like a very straight/constant barrel profile.
3G lightweight build?
in Rifle - Technical
Posted
Yes, I was already taking that into account in my statements. It was meant to be an "apples to apples" comparison. We may have different definitions on what constitutes "significant"
weight savings. For me, it was really showing up at the 20" mark on the 6.5 Creedmoor barrel. .875" at the gas block but something like 2lb 10oz. Their chief engineer told me himself. Looking atht ebolt bareels you see the percentage weight savings begins to take off because of thicker profiles that are traditionally used.
On a 14.5" 223 barrel with a .750" gas block the returns will be diminishing in a hurry (length giving rise to increased moment of inertia more than the profile). They'll be there at least to a small degree, but for me the juice wouldn't be worth the squeeze. I'm absolutely *not* a Proof hater. I'm very intrigued by their products and have had a very favorable impression of their customer service with my inquiries. I happen to do research in carbon fiber composite applications to spacecraft, so I'm a Kool-Aid drinker on CFRP. If I had the money to risk, I'd build a 20" 6.5 Creedmoor AR with their barrel and give it a spin.
Anyway, I wasn't intending a threadjack. Apologies for the brief divergence from the OP topic.