Carlos

No argument from me that they sometimes get it wrong; just look at the recent Supreme Court decision on eminent domain. However, just like the decisions of the Supreme Court, there is no appeal under Rule 11.6.3: Decision is Final. There can not be (nor should there be) any further examination of the issue; it is resolved. Moreover, lets ask the aggrieved party here: Julie (actually, I believe she filed under 11.7: Third Party Appeals). She has stated on the other thread, that she is dropping the issue & moving on. If not even the aggrieved party wants “follow through” here, why should we keep bringing it up? I agree w/ Julie & others; it is time to move on. Regards, D.C. Johnson

John Flentz wrote: "Here's the series of photos showing grinding and recountouring of the trigger guard area of Adam Tyc's pistol." "grinding and recountouring" - that is a serious accusation; it has also been proven FALSE. The Arbitration committee is what we call in law, a "finder of fact" (like a Judge). The fact is: the gun was examined and declared legal by the finder of fact. They examined, you did not. Therefore, as a matter of fact, it was NOT modified in violation of the rules and you are factually incorrect when you accuse the competitor of "grinding and recountouring". All I see in the photo is some blueing wear. Moreover, are those who still bring this matter up (even though it is settled under the rules) asserting that Adam beat the rest of the field due to the alleged "grinding and recountouring"? Is that all that seperated his win from your loss? C'mon! Give this junior some credit for beating you! This is all starting to really sound like sour grapes. Moreover, Flex wrote: ""To be honest, I am less concerned about a shooter breaking the edge of their trigger guard, than I am about limited availability Production guns that have been shot. (Yeah, I feel the 5 inch 5906 from the Performance Shop might fall into that category...) " Well, how about it? I think maybe the wrong gun was protested. On second thought, let's just move on for pete's sake. This photo posting and Monday morning quarter-backing (against a junior no less) is all becomming very unsportsman-like. Regards, D.C. Johnson

From what is known on this thread, we can conclude very little except: -the rules were followed by all parties involved. How do we know? There is ONLY ONE opinion that matters here - the official opinion (or ruling) of the arbitration committee. Julie made clear that she has accepted the ruling and also been good enough to provide us with a full explanation to keep down the rumors. Fine work Julie! (thanks also for the daily reports from the match). No one should be surprised or upset that there was controvery; the #1 shooter is always controversial & I believe Dave's sights were protested (as was their right) at the last world shoot. That is simply part of the rules & here, the rules regarding protests were followed (Chapter 11: Arbitration and Interpretation of Rules). Besides, the SP-01 arrived at the World Shoot under a cloud of controversy having been both banned & later re-instated to the Production list in the last months. As for the behavior of the shooter or team member who insulted Julie and topped it off with some sort of hand gesture, - that is a far more serious (and apparently unresolved) matter as I believe that the offending party may have violated Rule 10.6.1 and could be subject to a DQ for what they did to Julie; at a minimum such behaviour was completely un-called for and I for one think an apology to Julie is due. At this point, I doubt it will be pursued & yes, I know that sometimes tempers flair, but when sportemanship breaks down, can we still call this our sport? Julie should never have been attacked in such an uncivilized way for taking measures that are completely within the rules. Sorry that you had to go through that Julie. On a brighter note, congrats to all for putting up with an apparently tough match under some tough challenges; hope to be able to join you at the next world shoot. Regards, D.C. Johnson

Hope to get out to the range tomorrow weather permitting; 4.0 grns under the strange Berry's 185 - the one that is the size of a 230 w/ a hollow base like a Minnie ball. Will report back provided mother nature cooperates. D.

Go Todd! Give 'em heck down south & know that we are pulling for you here at home. -Douglas

I think the 686 is a popular model. You might sell more if you made it for the 686. Gauge interest as well on the Smith-Wesson forum as I am sure they would be in for a few. Regards, D.C. Johnson

Bought some of the Metalform 10 round .40 mags on the Group Buy at 1911forum.com. Great mags and they work perfect but they force you to reload your .40 short- as in REAL short - down to 1.135 or less to work. Work well though & cheap too.

As far as the other cuts on the ramp (or all the cuts on a Clark/Para) the frame is simply held in the mill vice, trued, and the cuts made as usual: Regards, D.C. Johnson ps - the above-mentioned precision ground iron angle plate is pictured in the background of the photo above.

It can be done. We are talking about the face cut on one type of ramp cut: the Nowlin/Wilson that is the only ramp cut found on factory STIs (the Clark/Para is easy to do on any mill incl the mini mill). Here is the 1st of 2 methods: Sorry for the 90 degree rotation & poor focus. You will need the supplemental gear track for the mini mill ($14). This gives you sufficient travel to move the head high enough for the specialized N/W bridge cutter. The frame (sans grip) is simply held in the vice and trued to the head, then cut as normal. As far as rigidity, there is plenty to long as you keep the feed rates reasonable; though I had my doubts about my set up, the tool is piloted and uses the dust cover as a guide. It is actually more rigid than it looks. The second method that likely does not need the additional track is to use a precision ground angle plate (a 6" ground iron plate should work). Attach and true plate, then use the clamping kit to attach the frame to the plate (and true that too). Finally, use the x&y to position it in the center and lock down the table. More than enough rigidity with such a set up. As far as threading a barrel, the mill does not thread barrels as its a job best left to a lathe. I have used a 1 1/8" tap in the mill to tap the hole in an AR-15 lower for the buffer tube; I also used the mill to drill & mill the hole. Regards, D.C. Johnson

Gear Head - I agree with you that a used Bridgeport, w/ a little TLC & a skilled operator, can do just a nice a job as the small chinese bench top mills. The machining skills that deliver quality results on a home workshop bench top mill will work the same way on larger industrial machines, like a Bridgeport. Regards, D.C. Johnson

You will need some precision measuring tools; if you own a reloading caliper then you are already familiar with how to measure down to the thou of an inch. The dials on a mini mill are graduated in these. A similar tool is the dial indicator. It is graduated in thou and is spring loaded. It can be used for leveling work. It is critical to level the work relative to the spinning bit or mill, not simply to some other surface, Though I own a fancy Starret machinist level, I rarely use it as every other surface has to be perfectly level too for it to work. Here is a poor photo of a dial indicator with a 1" range being used to level a 1911 frame: (click here for full sized picture)

An alternative to the vice is the more time consuming clamping kit that allows you to mount a work piece right to the table. Remember playing with an erector set as a kid? Everything was loose until you tightened the bolts; a clamping kit works the same way. It can be very frustrating to use, but sometimes necesary. Follow this LINK to the full page.

A couple of tools are necessary/useful for the any gunsmithing mill. First and foremost is a mill vice. An ordinary vice will not do. You need a machinist vice which fortunately, is not very expensive. I selected the 3" Precision milling vice; it cost $84 and weighs 26 lbs. It is pictured above mounted on the mill and at the link below. I usually use it without the degreed swivel base for greater rigidity and clearance. An exception was the front cocking serrations (similar to STI) that I did on a past project; there I needed a set angle (15 degrees). Here is a more complete explanation about the various types of suitable machine vice for the mini mill. http://www.littlemachineshop.com/info/gett...MiniMill_08.htm

Yo Rik! You wrote: "I already have carpol-tunnel which get quite aggrevated by relading and very very reluctant to buying undersized die. I use One Shots and I even wash my brass to make sure its squeeky clean. " Under the circumstances, careful use of a non-U or non-undersized die may be an appropriate option. But, how to size as far down as possible? EGW supposedly modifies their dies. You should be able to have a machine shop modify your favorite die on a lathe for a small fee; perhaps an inquiry at your next match would lead you to a sympathetic shop? What you want them to do is to bevel the outer steel portion of the die body without toching the brittle inner carbide ring (which can easily crack). This should allow the die body to be adjusted slightly lower/closer to the shellplate for more sizing & hopefully, removal of the guppy belly. As for wrist pain, there have been discussions regarding alternative case lube such as silicon spray and Strader's favorite: Bo-Shield developed by Boeing Aerospace (not sure where to buy it though). Regards, D.C. Johnson

Kydex. What gun? Pins rules require shooting off the rail or a table, not from a holster (except there are no longer any uniform rules for pins). Never heard of using a holster for pins though.

I think the long dust cover may have been a welded on addition by a local gunsmith in the Philippines; McOliver is local to Armscor. Any plans by Armscor to produce such a frame in the future?

Forgot to add that my mill is a model 44991 and is listed on this comparison chart: http://www.littlemachineshop.com/Info/minimill_compare.php Regards, D.C. Johnson

[edit: I broke these post out of another thread. The mini-mill topic deserves it's own thread, for sure. I'd hope this thread follows the path of "positive feedback", rather than...something else. -- Kyle F.] Merlin, the topic of the mini mill came up once before with a variety of opinions expressed; I am here to tell you that the Mini Mills from Harbor Freight and Homier are fully capable of precision work if used with patience by a skilled, un-hurried operator. (links below) Last time, there were some people who weighed in against the mini mill & I think most of them were retired machinists who used other people's money to buy Bridgeport industrial mills and USA Starret brand high precision tools totaling tens of thousands of dollars. I think some people hate anything made in China or Tiawan; I doubt any of them even tried machining on a mini mill & if they did, they tried to compare it to a fifty grand Bridgeport (which is not a fair comparison). Well, below is a list of links to folk's pages where the precision of the mini mill has been shown time and again. Take a look at all these pages & I believe you will see the many great things that the mini mill can accomplish with the patience & ingenuity of a home workshop machinist. www.littlemachineshop.com (this site sells all parts for the mills & compares several mills. Also has a good how-to). http://www.mini-lathe.com/Mini_mill/Main/mini-mill.htm (actually about the mini lathe but with links & honest assessment of these machine's capabilities) http://www.varmintal.com/alath.htm (another home hobbiest who was a machinist by trade & took the time to work with these machines with great results). www.harborfreight.com (the source of my mill) www.roderuscustom.tzo.com (take a look at his 1911 project built on a mini mill. The forum there let me to Blind Hogg at www.blindhogg.com where I was inspired to try parkerizing guns for the 1st time). I would love to have a full sized mill & a full machine shop at my disposal but that is not likely to happen anytime soon; I get by just fine with my mill. I guess it still sort of bothers me when people look down on such a mill for gunsmithing. I'd love to see more folks learning precision machining & milling at home; how many potentially great ideas go unrealized because some shooter did not have access to machine tools? Regards, D.C. Johnson

Few more steps taken: I started fitting the grip safety. I believe that this is a Brown memory grove left unused from a previous build; it was not even close as far as a match to the frame which I attribute to the casting, not the safety. A lot of blending has been required to get this thing to fit as it should: Also fitted & blended are the ambi thumb safeties. I will not be able to cut the internal lug until I have the sear to install. The sear and brand new barrel are on order but I will have to wait until after a friend returns from the Worlds to pick them up. (really hoping the holes are in the right place on this thing). Of course the odd brownish tinge to whatever finish is on this thing will be removed & replaced - most likely with manganese phosphate parkerizing (see my other thread on black park) along with the non stainless parts of the gun. The stainless Wilson mag well showed up in nearly 100% condition (thanks Todd) and it should fit well (pun intended) though I will have to do significant blending to make the transition 100% seamless. The fit is not perfect; there is a slight gap b/t the frame & chute that will be tough to correct (oversize bushings maybe??) but will address that later. More work to follow. Regards, D.C. Johnson

"Pretty much all of the revolvers I've seen from the Performance Center have trigger pulls equivalent to S&W's standard production line. The semi auto's which I've seen such as the 952, 945 or some of the new Koenig specials have decent trigger pulls. My feeling is that it is time the same consideration is applied towards their competition revolvers." If it is a competition revolver at an expected high price, I would expect a suitable & very light DA trigger; we are talking about a LONG DA pull so I fail to see how lightening that up would be in any way unsafe (the company's usual excuse for lousy triggers). Two other small details: it had better be chamfered for fast reloads and it had better accept different front blades - such as a fiberoptic as found on other Smiths. Regards, D.

Eric wrote: "Plated bullets - they frequently will ____ ___ ___ __ ___ _______ ___ . Every time I say it, someone vehemently objects. But it keeps happening. " Eric, I cannot disagree. I am a fan of plated bullets - such as the Speer Gold Dot, the Speer Lawman, Speer/CCI blazer & others including berrys and ranier. Do plated bullets sometimes tumble? Yep - it happened to me with the old West Cost Bullets - I cannot say for sure why, but it was not excessive crimp or velocity. However, if you find the the right load, they are excellent & priced right. Kinda a big "if", I know. I switched to a plated hard cast. There is only one plated hard cast: Frontier. Works for me. Regards, D.C. Johnson

All good advice; EGW for a custom part, Tanfoglio for supperior factory part or make your own (non-lock back slide). The CZ/Tanfoglio design results in extremely high slide velocity compared to a 1911. This is fine but for the punishment imparted to the slide stop. My CZ (the standard IPSC model) came with 3 replacement slide stops in anticipation of IPSC Major loads & rugged use.

I agree re: OAL. Most manuals list a MINIMUM overall length of 1.125 for .40. So, most guys just look a the number & use 1.125. WRONG!!! Particularly with a powder that is not listed in .40 reloaidng data for 180s. Anyone attempting N320 in a Glock shoud use an OAL of at least 1.155" to - as long as will fit in your Glaock's mag (probably 1.165") Again, please tell us: did either bullet set back on the seperations you had?

Thanks for the heads up! From your inquiry, it looks like Trail Boss is very primer sensitive. Some of us commonly use Magnum or rifle primers without a second thought. With many powders, apparently that is OK. With Trail Boss, one had better stick with non magnum pistol primers until we know more about this powder. A switch to the new non-tox primers could really cause problems. I think I am going to confine my testing to the super strong 625 for right now.

BTW, I did find a AA#7 load from the Lyman Pistol & Revolver Reloading Handbook, Second Edition; Page 146. The load is NOT for the 9x19mm, but rather for the 9x21. HOWEVER, the minimum OAL is designed to work with 9x19mm guns of strong design and modern manufacture. The CZ is modern; it did not exist befor '75. It is strong, using a Browning lock up. Here is the load from page 146: 9mm FMJ/FP, 124 Grn, AA#7 Start: 7.3 grns MAXIMUM load: 9.8 grns. Max load velocity: 1335 FPS: 165 PF. Pressure: 32,100 C.U.P. Again, please make the OAL LONG for safety. Also, please verify this load with the reloading manual and use only new brass or 1x fired brass.