Carlos

Hi Rufus - I did the same thing. At the same velocity (around 165 PF - 200 grain Rns going about 830FPS) Clays and Titegroup "felt" the same outdoors. Tried them indoors and Titegroup made a lot more noise - makes a harsh "crack". Also, Titegroup was filthy in .45 compared to Clays. Thing is, Titegroup seems to run clean in high pressure calibers like .40SW. Clays, well its designed to burn clean at low shotgun pressures and burns clean in .45ACP. I found that Clays gets the nod. Tell us what you discover. Both powders are easily available and really cheap in bulk (compared to V V).

Well??!? Results? Who won? Did not see anything posted at the main IDPA site under results or at S&W's corporate site.

Anodizing is dirt simple and can be done cheaply at home. Do a search on "anodize" on http://www.roderuscustom.tzo.com Use the dyes from Caswell's plating, not the RIT stuff.

They are honest folks in my opinion. They delivered just what I ordered on time. I tried to steer them towards driving up to last years 3 gun Nats - not sure if they made it there. 2 thoughts: http://www.bulletsandbrass.com Seems like a nice guy outta NC area and he is one of us - an action shooter - plus his price on .45 was like $20 - less than half of brassman. Now if he can fill all the backorders from guys!! I bet Brassmanbrass would buy his stuff if its available. 2) I ordered Winchester .45. About 1/4 were Win-Clean cases which have huge flash holes (seems like twice the size of normal .45). ANy difference? I can't tell, but it is mixed in w/ the other winchester stuff, at least in .45

Funny you should ask. I just returned from testing some of these at the NRA Headquarters Range. I made these up from the first batch that Westcoast made - they used powdered steel at first (don't freak out - its plated like a Gold Dot so the steel does not touch your barrel). Weight was still 155 grains. I loaded them over 5.7 grains of Hodgdon's Titegroup to an OAL of 1.255" with mixed cases and Winchest Large Pistol primers. I chronoed these last July 4 at 90 degrees, high humity, sea level. Out of a 5" STI Edge .45 ACP, they averaged 967.2 FPS for a powerfactor of 149.9. You need more than 5.7 grains (my load is about 100 FPS short of the 1,064.5 FPS neede for Major). This is a weird bullet. Its bigger than a 230 and has a rounded flat nose shape. It takes up lots of room in the case. Why shoot it? Theoretically, less recoil. Tonights test involved a comparison in my new .45ACP revolver- where there are no reciprocating slides or springs to throw off perceived recoil. I did not see an advantage compared to my standard IPSC load of a 200 grain Westcoast Bullet (either a Roundnose 200grn or a SWC 200 grn) over 4.5 grains of straight Clays powder. Maybe in an autoloader, they could be made to recoil less. I am not convinced. I think the 185 has as much potential - I shot it for a while at 167 PF - and is more widely available for less $$$. I see no advantage to the 230grn since they lowered the powerfactor to 165. Are there any old timers out there still shooting the 255 grns or even the old trick of 300grn bullets?? Sorta like a bowling ball or morter round in flight!

Scott Medesha - that is the answer I was looking for. THS- you've got mail.

Anyone see the USPSA 3-gun Nationals hightlights on American Shooter? They featured an open AR-15 (semi auto) with a knob attached to the carrier - a knob that moved with the carrier the way a bolt handle on the M-1 Garand, M1 Carbine, M1A or AK-47 moves. If you have ever shot one of these guns, you know what I mean. I'd like to attach such a knob to one of my semi-auto AR-15 carriers. Yes, the charging handle works on my AR. I do not want to use that. I want a reciprocating knob like the one at the Nationals. I saw that manual action AR (essentially an AR converted to a straight pull manual action). I do not want that. I want my semi auto to remain a semi auto. With a bolt knob. On the right side. The carrier metal is quite hard and I would rather not break the flash-chromed coating in the carrier bore. One piece of advice received so far: "You can burn the threads into the carrier with an EDM threader. Not too many shops have them so you will have to call around. A good plastic mold repair shop should have one" As for weight increase - that does not matter. JP uses a carrier milled from 7075-T6 aluminum. Its light. On the other hand, I have seen military M-16 carriers that weighed much more than the Colt ar-15 sporter carrier I have. I plan on turning an aluminum bolt handle. I will not weigh much. Of course, I will also have to mill a slot in the upper - but that is merely anodized aluminum. The knob will also have to be removeable for cleaning or replacement of the carrier. Anyone know of a suitable machine shop that will burn and tap the hole I need? Its only one hole, it should not cost much. Thanks. (Edited by Carlos at 1:28 pm on Feb. 25, 2003)

Rufus and KaiserB: You really owe it to yourself to try straight Clays in .45ACP. For "soft" recoil (read: faster shooting) you want a powder that is fast burning and Clays is up there with VihtaVouri N-320 at 1/2 the cost. You could use Hodgdon HP-38 or Bullseye - they are fast enough, but they use graphite or other coatings that make a mess of your gun and are no less expensive than Straight Clays. You will not encounter pressure problems with straight Clays in .45ACP at the 165 PowerFactor. People tha claim pressure problems with Clays are usually confusing its use in .40S&W (not recommended), not .45ACP.

Benny knows his stuff. One point to remember - so-called "National Match" triggers often are built to EXCEED 4.5 pounds for the NW course; we do not have that limit in USPSA/IPSC. Benny will build you an IPSC rifle, not a gun built for some other sport. You are free to use however light a trigger you want as long as it is safe. My recomendation? 1) Buy benny's riifle or 2) RRAb w/ 20" Non bull barrel w. float tube and have Benny's or Miculek comp installed 3) Bushmaster set up the same way 4) DPMS. Key parts are: accurate non-bull barrel; light trigger (you decide how light) effectve comp that is legal for the division you want to shoot; good sights/optic.

LIMITED CLASS GUNS: OK- here is the deal: 3gun shotguns come in 2 basic types: recoil operated like the Beneli and gas operated like the Winchester Super X2, Browning Gold (nearly same action as the Win) and Remington Practical or 1187/1100. There are also those weird Turkish guns that were in Frontsite a while back (gas guns) and the Russian AK-47 shotgun called the Saiga in 12 and 20 gauge. Don't know of anyong using those last 2 in 3 gun. Now, my opinions: 1) The Benelis and all recoil guns kick more and that slows me down. You like more recoil? Fine, choose a beneli. Can the top dogs win with Benelis? Yep. Are the recoil guns generally considered more reliable than gas guns? Yep. Do they sometimes jam? Yep. Cost as much as gas guns? Yep. The up side is they have pistol grip stocks available and depending on your shooting style, that helps. 2)Winchester/Browning & most gas guns don't kick as much. Also my Super SX2 came from Winchester ready to rumble with every tricked out feature for USPSA limited class - nothing to buy but ammo. It has run well with a few hitches - do a search on my name here and you'll see my comments - it requires a simple break in. Search on the term "SX2" as well. No pistol grip stock available for these - yet. I'll be the first customer when there is. The Browning requires extra parts to buy- like a tube. Anyone make a Browning tube? I don't know. 3) The Remington practical is aimed at USPSA limited and Remington deserves a "thanks" for supporting our sport. Do the brand new Practical model guns win? Too soon to tell. Have tricked out 1100s won limited in the past? Sure, and they have a reputation for breaking parts if you shoot a lot. Want to do well? Shoot a lot - period. You won't learn if you do not shoot. The 1100 will also jam in stock form - I owned one and mine did and that is why I sold it. In the matches I have shot, I jhave seen them jam. As for the standard model 1187/1100s out there , with enough extra parts and gunsmithing, they seem to shoot as well as my Winchester does and jam lass often than factory guns. Add up the cost of the parts/smithing for a standard 1187 versus the new Practical gun and you decide what works. I'll step back and let the other guys tell you what to use as far as ammo and other gear. Just remember: LIMITED! That means NO porting, No optics, and NO speed loaders. Make sure your gun (if you buy used) does not have these features. (Edited by Carlos at 2:52 am on Feb. 9, 2003)

Machine tools used in gunsmithing? You will love the Roderus Custom Gunsmiths site: http://www.roderuscustom.tzo.com Look for the 1911 gunsmith "Blindhog" and follow to his homesite - very informative.

I agree w/ Tuner w/ regard to high velocity chamberings like the .223 we use in 3 gun - got to clean those. And, you are right, Tuner, about the effectiveness of Sweets 7.62 Copper Solvent (strong ammonia!) on copper fouling. I use that on my ARs, followed by a quick shot of brake cleaner (do NOT use carb cleaner!!) through the gas tube to get the Sweets outta the gas port, then a thin film of Kroil followed by one dry patch. I should also add that my advice does not apply to those who are forced to use lead bullets like Cowbay Action shooters. Finally, as Wil points out, you need to occasionaly clean the chamber, BUT NOT THE BARREL of a handgun. I stand by original post - including the part about choosing your own path as to whether to waste time cleaning your IPSC/USPSA handgun's barrel. Got a .40, 9mm or a .45 w/ a stainless barrel? Clean it if you want but its a waste of time.

Thanks Vluc! That makes more sense; my previous post was somewhat sarcastic; I read the rule and knew my old overtravel stop Glock trigger was not legal just as the speedbump on the Beretta is a no-no. Fair is fair. Hightech - thanks for the tip! As for the aluminum Glock trigger, I think I;ll pass for now. I was seeking a more precise pull/breaking point versus the flex in the plastic parts. I'll make do w/ the stock Glock trigger and just work internally to lower its weight; I'm at 4.5 lbs w/ the 3.5 connector and the reduced power striker.

NEVER CLEAN YOUR BARREL (and yes, I meant to shout). Not sure everyone understood the previous posters on this so I will mention it again: NEVER EVER CLEAN THAT BARREL!! Throw away your brushes and turn your "cleaning rod" into a dedicated squib rod. You must be thinking I have lost all reason. However, I agree w/ Brian Enos, Wil Schueman, Big Dave, and scads of others. I have posted before on this and I am not sure the message is getting through. Don't take mine or BigDave's word for it, check the USPSA website- click on schueman, look for "barrel cleaning", , oh hell, I'll just do it for you: "My Personal Practice has become to never clean the bore of my barrels. I do use a brass rod to scrape the deposits out of the chamber. But, I've learned to leave the bore alone and it very slowly becomes shinier and cleaner all by itself. Years ago I occasionally scrubbed the bore with a brass bore brush. But, doing so always seemed to cause the bore to revert to a dirtier look with more shooting, so I eventually stopped ever putting anything down the bore except bullets... Good luck,"" You don't have to agree. Clean it if you like - its your gun, but you will be wasting your time (unless you shoot lead, but I will never shoot that stuff again).

Stuff seems to almost have a crimp - very slight but it does catch the edge of primers. They are using the same primer (small) in .45ACP which really pissed me off - but not as much as their patronizing reply to the mail I sent them about it: http://www.brianenos.com/cgi-bin/ikonboard...4&topic=488 Its reloadable, but I just throw Federal .45 away these days.

Welcome WayneG - I went through the same thing in 97 when I installed my first 3.5 connector. Your 21 likely feels a bit like a DA revolver now - you might try a reduced power striker spring to cure that. You can get one from custom glock racing or Glockmeister - the instructions for the top end are in the same place you found the others. In addition, you will learn how your Glock functions. Some folks criticize the reduced power striker - take a look at my post on "tungsten guiderod" but I think they are fine. See you at the match! DVC, C.

Great to hear from you good buddy! (thread drift mode on) The SX2 has done 3 strange things: 1) At the NRA Range 3gun, w/ Walmart remington shells, it spit enormous flames out of the ejection port! Greg was amazed. If I had brought some marshmellows & sticks . . . 2) It choked 2x on Winchester slugs and 3x on Rem Low Recoil but ate up S&B w/o a problem. Locked it back for 2 weeks & will try again. 3) It was dead on from the factory w/ slugs. Then I cleaned it, reassembled, and shot one of the NRA Range 3 gun matches. After the slug stage, Heidi asks me "Did you mean to shoot them all in the upper A/B zone??" The POI had mysteriously shifted up 8 inches @ 25 yards! Had to lower rear sight all the way - it is now so hard to see, I just use the scope mount as a rear leaf. I took your advice & got a GSSF 17 (see my post on the Glock forum). The other day, we picked up the steel to line Phil's range walls for IDPA and IPSC matches- it should be up by the time you read this. Indoor matches will soon be on! Lookin forward to shooting the SC sectional again and maybe even the Pan Am. Will see you soon!! D. Ha ha gmw2b - just wait til' I get to the next 3gun match! You best practice, son.

Glad to hear it! Thnaks for clearing that up as I shoot a Glock w/ the Glockmeister trigger with the overtravel-stop & was concerned it would not be allowed, but apparently, that would be OK. Was also considering the aluminum Glock tiggers, which also are apparently legal from your post. DVC, C.

Good advice Flex! Will seek out a tungsten rod & likely a Wolff spring assortment. Glad to hear about TG - neat powder (tried it in.45 bet was too dirty at low .45 pressure). Will load it under some 147s - plated perhaps. As to the other mods- I've got you covered!: - Sights Italian made low profile adjustable for $25 from CDNN - I missed out on the full profile. I think they are Meggars. I just put on a cheapo ($20 from Natchez) front fiber optic last night - I had to clamp the crap outta the thing to get it in the slot so if I do not like it, it may get milled to .90 and filled w/ steel epoxy! - Trigger work Bought an extra 3.5 to go in an old trigger assembly (the whole shebang) to try out some of Dale's tricks and will try an old reduced power striker - hope those Blazers still go off! Tried stoning connector and end of trigger bar again last night and its still off the cheap RCBS scale - over 4.5 pounds to brake - what mod will bring it down further? - Extended, Glock brand, mag release $9 from USPSA classifieds - Grip tape Need to stop by Home Depot or the skateboard shop again. Any other suggestions (Edited by Carlos at 10:40 am on Feb. 4, 2003)

Production shooters: your recomendations on the Glock 17 guiderod and reduced power recoil spring? I know I need to stay within 2 OZ of factory weight. I also plan on using the 147 grn bullet and possibly Titegroup or V V N-330 or 340. All prior loads for 9mm were hot carbine loads using 115s so I am at a loss for the perfect minor load. BTW, I also buy factory 9mm since its so cheap (Blazer from Natchez - only $4.85 a box!!), but before the season starts I'd like to try a 147 traveling just over minor. Your thoughts?

In a .40, Hodgdon's titegroup is exceptionally clean.

Steve - I looked at that website and I think DogmaDog is right - Langdon's guns w/that speedbump trigger are stricltly open/Limited/L10 - not allowed in production. Are there any other gunsmiths doing triggers?

Hi again Lee - you might be able to have a gunsmith ream the 9mm barrel you have to 9 Supercomp/ 9x23 and simply switch magazines; the 1911 frame has ample room for the longer OAL. Accuracy is another issue, however. Can you tell us more about your gun's setup?

Agree that Gilberts has many drawbacks plus Phil's place costs less and supports USPSA/IPSC. Typical response at Gilberts is "USP what?? You mean kinda like PPC?" I'd also watch your lead levels if you shoot much at Gilberts.

Fireant - I like a Westcoast 200 grn Semiwadcutter at 1.245" OAL over 4.0 grns of straight Clays powder - I have gons as low as 3.7 to 3.8 grns and it functioned inmy STI though you will certianly have to lower your spring rate in the 21 and the rounds will all hit higher due to the lower velocity -I know , seems backwards. BTW, the semiwadcutters functioned 100% in my friend's Glock 21; others have had trouble getting SWCs to function in their Glocks.