Kimberkid

Sucks that Serra is out. I was really looking forward to that fight. Hopefully someday it will still happen. Spook, how can you find Coleman and Sherk boring??? You're my brother man, I cant believe you would do that to me. I do agree with you that Chuck is a kickboxer with good take down defense. I have no idea how successful he really was as a college wrestler, and as for ground skills, no one has ever seen them. I will give him though that he has done jui jitsui with John Lewis for forever, so thats gonna mean something. DP, i agree that lay and pray is more or less a thing of the past. It still happens, but not like it used to, and not like a lot of people claim. Just because they are on the floor doesnt mean nothing is happening. Thats kinda like saying that Bullseye shooting is easy because it is so slow. Once you understand what is going on, you get a new respect for it. Once you can see which submissions are being set up, before they happen, you will enjoy the ground game a lot more.

Update: Did a little hands on research this weekend. I went to a couple stores and handled a few of these low end guns, looked closer and compared. Remington 390's are out, the wood on a couple of them seemed almost plastic and looked sure to break very soon. Opening and closing them was tough, too tough, like bad fitting tough. 2 different Mossbergs were in suprisingly good shape, opened and closed smooth, but firm and secure with wood that while bargain grade, seemed durable. When compared to new Cynergy's, Citori's, and various Beretta models I was shocked. This is definetly the way I will go. I also got 2 sales offers via PM (thanks a ton guys) and a line on one locally. I also know that Grandpa has a 12 ga. Citori that is a mate to the 20 ga. that the little brother ended up with. There was a rumor around the Thanksgiving table that it didnt really get shot anymore, and might be available for long term loan. I think I am gonna bide my time for a little while and see what my best options are. Thanks again everyone for the assistance.

Thanks guys again for everything. I have found models from Mossberg, Remington, CZ and Charles Daly that all fit my criteria for about $600 off the rack. Any features I should stay away from? I had assumed 26" barrels would swing better for Skeet, but if they are really that much more punishing, then 28" is the way I will go. That was more of an assumption than a learned preference. Have mostly shot 28" and 30" guns in the past.

Btw, just realized I might wanna let ya'll know more specifics... Decided that I want the following features: -Manual Safeties, or none at all -Manual extractors, preferrably no ejectors -26" barrels, tho will settle for 28" if I have to -screw in chokes of common availability, not some wierd thread size -must have vent rib, prefferably with a mid bead or option to add one any suggestions?

Thanks a lot for all the replies guys. Been looking a little more and stumbled onto some CZ's that look good also. I will be on the lookout for a used Citori also. Any more advice? I am also a big fan of buying the best I can afford, however, this is not at all a priority and cash flow is low right now. It aint gonna bother me much if I have to do nothing and go without, just would like to find something worthwhile if I can

Thanks for the replies guys. Irish, I did handle a Mossberg O/U at Walmart the other day, just cause I had never seen one there. I was kinda suprised in that it looked totally fine. Standard cheesy wood and nothing special for metalwork, but looked serviceable. That is what prompts this topic. I am just hoping to find something that is all function and no frills whatsoever. Again, not being a shotgun guy it is hard to see a mechanical difference that would make one a $400 gun and another a $10,000 gun. As for going with an auto or pump, I already have an 1100, several 870's, and an Auto 5. I just kinda prefer an O/U for clay birds. This is a real informal thing, and in no way integral to my life as a shooter. Kinda like a kid looking for his first deer rifle, dont need the best, just good enough. If it turns out that I have to spend $1k to get anything that is worth owning then I will probably just do without. However, if I can get something that is good enough, I will.

I should have explained more. The Citori isnt mine. It is on long term loan from my Grandfather to my brother and I. My bro is moving and would like to take it with him. When little brother wants something, big brother makes it happen. So, in short, I'd like another O/U to replace it, while spending as little money as possible. I have trouble fighting the feeling that if all the fitting and measurements are the same, then the guns should shoot very similiarly. I am not a shotgun guy at all, so I have clue if that is true, but it seems to make sense to me. I dont do much shotgunning, so I had thought I would get a cheap one now, and if I get more active, drop bigger bucks later after I know what I want. Kinda like shooting a Glock for a year and if I love IPSC then buying an S_I. If there isnt a cheap one worth having then Ill just wait a little longer and get another Citori.

I have recently noticed a couple of cheap O/U's and hoping ya'll can answer some stuff for me Are there any O/U's under $600 worth owning? I keep seeing Remington 310's and Mossberg Silver Pigeon (i think) around in the $400 to $500 range. Are these total junk? What is the difference between a $400 Remington and a $1200 Beretta? I could care less about asthetics, plain crappy wood and no fancy metal work is fine. This wont see any use beyond some informal Skeet and hand trap. Probably less than 500 rounds a year. Any suggestions that would fit my needs? I am now using a very worn Browning Citori. Anything that matches the ergonomics with a lower price tag? I dont want anything that aint worth the trouble, but I dont wanna pay for appearance or top end performance when I wont use it. What is the O/U version of the butt ugly Glock workhorse?? Any lower end models to avoid like the plague? Thanks a ton for the replies.

Pete, I can see how you could come to that opinion, but give the wrestlers another chance. Watch any of these fights: Couture vs. Ortiz Sherk vs. Florian Sherk Vs. Hughes Couture Vs. Van Arsdale Any Pride fight with Kevin Randleman all these have awesome exciting wrestling to them I also had a similiar upbringing to Hughes, but I cant dig on how he disrespects some people. However, I will admit he has some redeeming qualities. As for best guard game Hughes has faced, I somehow let BJ slip my mind. However, I am not totally convinced BJ's gaurd is better than Serra's. Hopefully time will tell.

I just cant see why all the hate for Serra. Hughes beats the shit out of his guys, and i dont mean hard work but abuse, then calls them pussies and losers and wonders why they dont win. They dont win becuz they r getting injured by their "coach". Serra didnt win on a fluke. End of story. It wasnt a lucky punch. He tried to knock GSP out and succeeded, how is that lucky? also, he didnt hit him once, but several times. Lucky? Also, It is my opinion that it is a very bad idea to count out a 2 discipline world champ. That means Serra, not Hughes. I dont think Serra has any fear of Hughes. Hughes SHOULD be afraid of Serra at least for the realization that he has a far better gaurd game that anyone Hughes has ever fought. I dont know who will win this one, but anyone who thinks Serra doesnt have a chance is foolish.

Thanks Cy, Maybe i misrepresented myself. I dont think Tanner is a more complete fighter than Silva or Franklin, but he has a clinch game that I think is better than Franklins and maybe as good as Silva. If Tanner comes back with the game he used to have, I would love to see a fight between him and Silva. Silva wont knock him out, though a Ref stoppage is definetly possible. Tanner could also win several ways as well.

Also, Lesnar is a joke. If he ever wins anything it will be a set up. If he ever wins the title, from a real HW fighter, I will personally fellate an entire anger management class of wolverines that were abused as childeren. It aint gonna happen.

Wow, I think the Benosvere needs to add an MMA forum. Penn Vs. Stevenson- I dunno. Power, speed, endurance wrestling and Jui Jitsu top game go to Stevenson. Gaurd game, striking and experience go to Penn. I think Stevenson makes this a lot closer than people expect. For the record, I hate em both. Sherk destroys them both in the next fight. Other Random shots: Anderson Silva is not unstoppable, he is not totally dominating 185. He is a top flight fighter that has Franklins number. He will have the success he is due, win fights, and be respected as the great fighter he is. He is NOT the 2nd coming of Jesus, Santa, Chuck Norris, or Luciano Pavarotti. I like Franklin a lot, but he (like a lot of fighters) has this idea that you gotta be a stand up fighter to be a man. Going to the ground doesnt make you a pussy, it makes you well rounded. Evan Tanner is my all time favorite fighter. NO ONE, without exception, has more heart. If he comes back, he is a real threat to Silva. Tanner is a bigger threat than Franklin was. Tanner and Lindland both have a clinch game better than Franklin and as good as Silva. Hendo is also gonna shake up 185 as soon as he gets a fight. It isnt even dropping wieght for Hendo. He is a natural 185. 205 is stacked. It has a couple top tier fighters and a few very close to top tier fighters, all mixed together. Who can hold the title? Houston might, but not for long. Jardine could, but wont. Bisping cant. Rashad wont (though i really wish he could). Chuck might hold it again, but he wont get it from Rampage. Jason Lambert can, but he is gonna have to fight 31 fights to get to a title shot. 170 is also stacked. Who can hold the title? GSP can, and might. Serra can, and I think, will. Hughes can and might. Karo never will. Burkman was never going to. Sherk could come back to 170 and hold it. Diego wont. Fitch can and will, someday. HW is dead without Randy and Fedor. No one cares about Sylvia anymore. Which is sad, but true. There arent any other HW's on the scene until you start diving into the Pride guys. Cro Cop, Big Nog, Gonzaga, and Randleman will be nessecary to keeping HW from disappearing. Feel free to discuss if you disagree with above stated opinions

Maybe I see it differently than some, but I wouldnt be cutting much slack right now. He said 2 months, it is now 4, and he is dodging phone calls. I agree that some people wait much longer than 4 months, but they are also given a longer estimate at the beginning. Answer these... 1. Did he really say 2 months? or did he say "aww golly, it'd prolly be bout 2 months or so long as I git done painting the fence and cutting hay". 2. Is he really dodging calls? Or do you keep calling at wierd times, leaving non descript messages without your name or phone number. If it was a fairly solid time estimate and you have left more than 3 messages with your full name and phone number, I'd grab an empty box and head over to his house prepared to find out. If he just had an honest delay you can grant forgiveness at your behest, but you wont know if he is boning you until you see it yourself. I could care less about keeping a good local smith if the only thing he has yet to prove is that he is dishonest.

and the ring girls from Randy Couture's Sportfight. They are all 30-35ish stacked models wearing rhinestone sparkely evening dresses. They make the Dillion girls look like a group of poorly groomed swamp donkeys.

Rampage hasnt gotten the "Cage Curse" because he isnt a true Pride Fighter. He had a buncha fights in cages long before he started fighting in Pride. If M1 is gonna have knees and elbows on the ground, along with head kicks, that would be awesome. I really hope the production value is up there though, good fights can get ruined by crappy presentation. I have probably 15 King of the Cage DVDs and they have some great fights, but the commentating and overall appearance sucks.

Suppressors are neither illegal nor restricted in the UK. If you can have any gun, you can put a suppressor on it. If that were the case here, I would use them.

He might fight in another organization, but not if it dont happen soon. I think if it dont happen in a year or so, he is gonna call it quits for good. He dont need the money and his cardio is starting to take a turn. Just bothers me becuz I doubt M1 or whoever he fights for will have the same rules, setup, or production value. Tho I would love to see Randy and Arona meet at 205, though its probably unlikely.

Chuck made $500K, on the record for his loss to Jardine. Jardine made $14K. The entire rest of the event card total, made what Chuck made.

Sherdog.com has a number of articles. Long and short of it, IMO...... Dana tried to get Fedor on the cheap and failed. Randy said that was the only fight that made sense to him, any other fight wouldnt have proven anything. Randy was also pissed after Dana/Lorenzo told him that he is the 2nd highest paid fighter in the UFC which isnt close to true, and he knew it. I really dont think it was about money, but rather respect. Randy was the biggest draw in the UFC and was getting punked in the money department, and then lied to about it. Dana has been promising Fedor for a long time, and then offers him a joke of a contract. I earlier posted here about how I would be reluctant to promise a fight with a fighter I hadnt yet signed. Thats what Dana did, and it just blew up in his face.

I agree with Spook, however, I still see this as a huge loss for any MMA fan.

Randy Couture has resigned all his positions with the Ultimate Fighting Championships and Zuffa LLC. This includes his deals with commentating, promoting, and as current Heavywieght Champion. The worlds priemere MMA promotion has lost its greatest star.

I just had ACL replacement surgery in June and it was the best thing I could have done. Shop around for docs, not just the first one or two that you go to. Seems like you caught it, but ice is definetly the way to go, single best pain reliever I had thoughtout the whole ordeal. Try putting a bag on top, and underneath. Wrap the bags in a thin hand towel if they are too cold to the touch. Also do it right after you get out of the shower, as the hot water swells it up, it will feel a million times better.

Without being argumenative, there is no way that Serra was made by 1 punch. He has been a top fighter for a long time, and caught a couple bad breaks. I suspect Hughes will win, but Serra has the tools to win. I think, for Serra, GSP was a much bigger challenge than Hughes will be. I highly doubt that Hughes can stay inside Serra's gaurd and pound him like he does to most others. Serra's submission game is also light years ahead of Hughes'. Never count out someone that is a World champ in more than 1 discipline. That means Serra, not Hughes.

Jardine gets a shot at the title next, I hope. If Wanderlei doesnt fight chuck, then it might be nice to see him against Griffin (a warm up fight and chance to avenge Chute Boxe) with the winner getting a shot at Rampage/Jardine winner. Thats how I'd like to see it. I also wouldnt be shocked to see Lidell fight a "lesser" opponent, maybe Bisping or someone on that middle tier, to give him a really good chance of winning so that the UFC doesnt lose their poster boy to the annals of time. Does Hughes deserve a shot at Serra? I think so. He has said several times he only have a couple fights left in him. I wanna see Hughes vs Serra, with Jon Fitch getting the winner. Unless GSP gets a shot at Fitch first for #1 contender status. What a great time to be an MMA fan!!