Sin-ster

That's a very good consideration to keep in mind when building a stance.

Brian and TGO sure knew what they were doing when they started experimenting with the grip, and arrived at the standard one we use today! There is some room for personal adjustment/innovation, though-- it's important to remember that. Although the core concepts and basic principles are true across the boards, every shooter is going to be slightly different in the specifics. Strength, build, hand size, the pistol they use, the length of their neck, the length of their arms-- a billion different factors all come into play in terms of what will work the very best. I personally believe in Brian's approach to the topic-- build the stance and grip based on the common suggestions, and then let your body naturally work out the rest. Film yourself, get some outside input, and fine-tune what's going on from there.

That's the first I've heard of that, Chris-- glad you spoke up! What projectiles are you using, out of curiosity? I found with this particular bullet (the 124 grain MG JHP that I use for Production and will be using for 38 Super/Open), I was getting some pretty funky (albeit inconsequential) fluctuations in OAL with the factory Dillon die. That profile I suspect is a rather odd one. Switching over to the Redding, they were cut dramatically; my ES is in the range of .0025 now unless something else is to blame, and I believe the vast majority of that can be written off to variations in the projectiles and cases themselves. I also found the micrometer adjustment to be helpful when switching from one headstamp to another-- particularly WIN and FC, as they show a consistent variation of .002-.003 in OAL. Again-- these are inconsequential differences for handgun loads, without question. But I'm OCD as all get out, and precision/consistency makes me happy! From a pragmatist's perspective, I'm inclined to agree with you. In my particular case, especially when in the grand scheme of things the cost is a drop in the bucket when compared to the rest of the press, the components, the handgun and accessories themselves, etc.-- appeasing my "meticulous" tendencies is worth the extra few bucks.

I'm glad I created this thread-- picking through the archives for the past several days, I've come across a lot of these loads, but it was hard work! PIcked up a couple of pounds of the most commonly suggested powders, and plan to give them a shot in the coming week (or two-- Double Tap and all of that around the corner). Gun, dies, primers and powder should all be here on Friday-- I'm pretty stoked! Thanks for the suggestions, and feel free to continue adding them-- it'll make a nice reference for anyone else asking the same question down the road.

That's some sweet camera work, my friend. Much appreciated.

It appears from both photos that your center of gravity is too far rearward, regardless of which stance you adopt. Even as you try to go aggressive, most of your weight seems to be centered over your heels. No matter how you stand, this will indeed rock you back with recoil-- even from the humble 9mm. Body styles are so different that suggesting x-amount of flex, y-amount of bend at the waist, and z-width of your stance is pretty hard to do from an outside perspective. What is universal is that you should orient yourself so that you're fully "behind the gun"-- using your body as a meat stop and something of a buffer against the recoil. To do that, your weight really needs to be centered more on the balls of your feet. Folks talk about 70/30, 80/20-- again, it's going to be relative to your build and physiology. I'm tall, skinny and relatively long-limbed; at times, it feels like I'm almost 100% on the balls of my feet with my weight, with the heels just barely stabilizing me against the ground. In fact, I've had a couple of instances recently where diving into a position and trying to accomplish that lean has seen me tipping over and having to catch myself-- both instances because my toes were curled on a fault line, and I was squatting low to shoot through a port. You may not have to be nearly that aggressive, but it appears as if you're rocked back pretty far in both of the photos you posted. Another thing to consider if you're shooting USPSA or anything else that requires movement is that the wider your stance, the harder it will be to get going to full speed right away. Again to compensate for my less-than-ideal build, I had a very wide stance that gave me rock-solid mass behind the pistol-- until I took a class with Manny Bragg, who wondered if I really needed all of that to manage the recoil. Sure enough, I tightened up my feet a bit, made a few more adjustments to compensate, and not only was I just as effective at keeping the gun under control, my movement improved astronomically. One last note-- keep in mind that we don't always have the option of building a perfect stance when we shoot a stage. Other than Speed Shoots, Standards and Classifiers, you will almost certainly be working out of odd positions that throw your optimal posture right out of the window-- even if it's just shooting targets at very steep angles, like Poppa Bear describes in his 90 degree example. That doesn't mean that you should abandon the quest for an optimal stance-- it simply indicates that it ought to be as natural as possible, so that even when you "corrupt"/modify it for the situation, it still works relatively well. When I'm dealing with a new shooter, I typically ask if they have any background in athletics. I get them to take their stance for that sport, and then tweak it a bit to suit the new purpose. With very few exceptions, they are able to replicate this stance from that point on with minimum effort, simply because it's so close to what they already know.

Neither. Not sure if that was an honest question or an attempt at being clever... I highly doubt we could watch any video and tell the difference, aside from one created specifically to illustrate it. (I.E. close up, high definition, ridiculously high speed video.) Now... I can watch my own and tell you.

Redding makes them speccifically for 38 super comp, super or 9mm. are you shooting a super comp case? just super ? redding will have one for whatever your shooting. the bullet really doesnt matter. That's the answer I was looking for. The die is based on the case, not the projectile. Good stuff!

I'm going to take a not-so-wild stab in the dark and say that your issue weapons are Glocks?

No, not looking for holes. That is about the last form of feedback that I'd seek. When I am shooting well, it's not really about the target...more about execution. Even with no sights? I'm curious to know where your feedback was coming from... More like dying to know...

Now that's one that has never happened to me, and I've autoforwarded this gun a lot with 10 different magazines. You have, of course, shot a lot more than me-- and this gun is only 7 months and ~30k+ rounds old... And obviously, I'm not working from slide lock super-often! Is the support hand the common method? Playing around with it since we began this conversation, I swear that my weapon hand is much more up to the task. For a long, long time there, neither my Glocks nor M&Ps would even go into slide lock because of the grip. (That corrected itself randomly without conscious effort-- although the extra flip of my M&P 45 FS still prevents it from locking back 90% of the time.)

I'm sold on the technique-- but it's a low priority right now, for many of the same reasons you're talking about. I figure if I never shoot the gun to slide lock, it's a non-issue-- so better spend time working towards that, as it helps in a much broader spectrum of circumstances! On top of that... my 9 Pro loves to autoforward. I had 2 slidelock reloads in Mississippi last weekend, and on video, they're impossible to tell apart from speed reloads. In fact, one might have been the fastest of the match... It'll definitely be something I look into correcting down the road, though!

Good stuff, Flex. Were you getting feedback from the targets-- i.e. spotting the holes, as I assume you were using 100% target focus (with some awareness of the muzzle's orientation in your periphery, perhaps)?

Yeah, got one in 9mm and it's the tits! 38 Super then, and not 9mm-- despite using the same projectile?

So it's the front post for shooting... Is it the cursor for typing-- where the letters are appearing as you stroke the keys? I ask because I do the latter naturally, and can hopefully decide why I'm not so consistent with the former...

You'll know you're no longer shooting "double taps" the day that your body refuses to let you break a shot, even though your brain *seems* to be screaming for it. It's an odd feeling when without conscious effort, you hold off and see the sights move back to the center of the A-zone before the next round touches off. Almost a dissociative experience-- at least the first time it happened to me! A caveat to that-- my practice and match experiences are still WAY too different. The phenomenon happens to me all of the time in practice, but I'm far more likely to make up a shot in a match than to not touch it off in the first place. My humble assessment is that I've got a speed focus after the buzzer, and not so much during practice. (Bad, bad, bad!)

Matt Mink advocates gripping the gun "hard"; since Voegel is the king of grip strength, I'm guessing he'd say the same thing. The problem with this description is that it's subjective as all get out. We can talk all day about building the proper grip, but when it comes down to how much pressure to apply (and even with which hands, or specifically which PARTS of the hands), the conversation breaks down. I find, for me, that a more firm grip is optimal. Not so much as to screw up the dexterity of my trigger finger or to cause the gun to tremble, but enough to eliminate the chances of the grip moving the gun before/as the shot breaks, and to ensure consistent sight tracking between shots. I also go for what Brian seems to advocate-- relatively equal grip between both hands. I'm pretty eloquent and a trained writer... and I can't even begin to verbalize what all is going on in my hands. I can, however, describe what the sights look like when everything is just right. The shot breaks, the front post begins to lift, and then it seems to "short stroke" the standard recoil and just fall back perfectly into the same exact spot. My guess is that the best answer is the least helpful-- you'll have to keep playing around and decide for yourself. More grip strength almost certainly helps-- your "handshake grip" now will be increased with focused training. Make sure the mechanics of your grip are correct, and play around with it.

You, sir... have some skill. However... I saw you fumble one of those slide-locks in a Critique video you recently posted... Not that I don't fumble speed reloads like it's my job! Just asking-- was that thumb sweep a factor (it appears to be the part that messed you up), and would autoforwarding have prevented that?

Indeed. Now assume that you are 99% at that 90%. The remaining 10% becomes 100% of your concern over a quick reload. Say that ten times fast! I'm far from perfect in that key area, but I know for a fact that the last 10% of the reload that you're talking about is where my biggest gains can be made. It's mostly in the re-establishing of the grip and the subsequent acquisition/settling of the sights.

??? You read that correctly; autoforward or power stroke. Training scars or well trained-- you be the judge.

So, eh... I think I know the answer to this one. But before I drop the dime on another Redding Competition Seating Die, I figured that I oughta get some affirmation. My bore diameter is .355; it even says so on the barrel. The projectile I'm going to use is also my favored for Production-- MG 124 JHP, "9mm", .355 diameter. 38 Super die (which I'm guessing is for .356), or 9mm? Or does it make a damn bit of difference?

Right on! The sights give the best feedback on the shooting. Using them, we get to KNOW what is going on...better. Knowing is awesome. Don't you win Majors without sights on your gun?

Only until I win Nats and Worlds; then I'm switching. So... maybe forever? No, yeah-- it's a bad habit that I never considered before. It's never bitten me, and I'm still crappy enough to be in slide lock more often than I'd like. I'm definitely changing my tune to advocate for weak thumb release, even if the gun autoforwards. But I STILL bet Dave's hitting that reload hard enough to autoforward the Glock in those videos. His thumb almost certainly grazes the slide lock, but it's redundant. Smart-- but redundant.

Shoot more. Annoying answer, but really the crux of the matter. What you're experiencing is actually a bit of flinch-- not as pronounced as scrunching up your face, closing your eyes while breaking a shot, moving the whole pistol in anticipation of the recoil, etc. But it's anticipation-related nonetheless. Chances are that you're trying to "snatch" the shot when the sights line up and the target cross over them. That can also happen while going for super-tight groups, as well as long/tight shots-- at least for me. Putting more rounds down range help in a couple of ways-- you'll develop confidence in your ability to snap those shots off at will, you'll get better and better at getting accurate hits at greater speed (not just shot-to-shot, but between the time you decide to shoot a target and the time the shot actually breaks), and you'll find yourself feeling more and more comfortable in those tough spots and/or with the gun in general. No matter what anyone tells you, shooting a handgun is not a natural act; you're holding a little explosion up to your face, after all! Folks respond to varying levels, and for varying amounts of time in the long term-- and they respond in varying ways. I for one STILL struggle with shooting the reset during slowfire; the minute the trigger 'clicks' back into place, I wanna break the shot. I find that when I focus on freeing myself of all tension and expectations, this (odd) phenomenon goes away easily. Everything you posted points to tension and subsequent anticipation-- difficult targets, huge penalties for screwing them up, awareness of taking a ton of time, etc. As hard as it sounds, you've got to just let it all go-- and the best way to accomplish that is by shooting more! (While being aware of this issue, of course-- that shortens the learning curve!)