constable79

Yes, I trim after full length sizing

Thanks for the replies guys. Appreciate your thoughts.

Looking for advice/education from the experts. I have been reloading for 25 years but this is my first time reloading for .308. I have loaded tens of thousands of .223 but have not noticed this issue. Background Rifle: Rock River Arms LAR-8 X1, 18" barrel Brass: once fired PMC commercial, once fired Lake City NATO. Trimmed to 2.005" Bullets: 168gr SMK's Powder: RL15, 43grns COAL: 2.800 Brass was full length resized with the shoulder bumped back .004 from cases fired in this rifle. Sizing was confirmed using case comparator and a case gage. COAL was confirmed using calipers and COAL comparator. Cases were sized on a Rock Chucker single stage and the the cartridges were loaded on a Dillon 550. Since this was my first time reloading .308 I took some measurements of the fired cases before and after sizing. I discovered after firing the cases they hardly grew at all. After sizing the cases grew approximately .005". The question: When I measured the cases before sizing I found some of the case lengths to be in the 1.998" range which is considerably shorter than the 2.005 length they were trimmed to. I did not mark my reloads so I could have picked up someone else's brass with mine although big coincidence the headstamp was the same. This is the first time I have ever measured a fired case prior to sizing. I didnt think the brass would shrink since it headspaces on the shoulder and not the case mouth. I'm looking for someone to educate me or explain how my brass could have shortened during firing and why it was only some of the cases. I apologize for the long post but wanted to give as much information as possible. Thank you in advance for sharing your knowledge and experience.

If you are using load data for commercial brass (223) then you need to reduce the load by about 3% when loading in .556 because military brass typically has less case capacity. Your loading manual should have a note stating whether the loads were developed using military brass or commercial brass..

Sell me the 1050 and I'll be happy to drive to Jacksonville and provide some lessons

+ 1checking your powder bar... Make sure you have the large powder bar. One other suggestion, lower your powder die just a little. The plastic washer in the side of the powder measure should actually hit full travel when the handle is about an inch from the end of the stroke. To ensure you are "pausing" long enough on the down stroke, mesure the time it takes for you to dump the powder from a cartridge. Your dwell time on the down stroke needs to be at least this long. Hope this helps.

OVW, With Lemishine, more is not better. Don' t use more than 1/4 teaspoon. Also, I have noticed that nickel covered brass may tend to "grey" out and not come out shiny. Did this to all of my .357 Winchester brass. I'm not sure why this happens but if I tumble them a second time they come out shiny again. My mix is per the original instructions: 1 tablespoon Dawn dishwashing detergent, 1/4 teaspoon Lemishine, fill tumbler to 1 inch below the rim. Wanting to try Flitz liquid version but haven't found any local yet.

Ray, With the Redding Competition Seating die you will typically see a larger OAL variance when measuring with calipers from cartridge base to bullet tip. The reason for this is that the competition seating die seats off the ogive and not the bullet tip. If your bullet lenght varies then the ogive contact will be in a different place for each bullet. My last case of MG bullets had a variance of .010 in a batch of 100 I measured. If you measure with a bullet comparator you will see a much smaller OAL because the comparator measures from Ogive to bullet base. If you use a seating die which seats off the bullet tip then the calipers will give a better OAL variation and the comparator will give you a larger OAL variance.. When I use my RCSD in 9mm I get +/- .005 OAL when using the caliper measuring method. When using the Dillon seating die I typically get +/- .002 when using the caliper measuring method. In theory, the RCSD is supposed to provide better accuracy because the distance from Ogive to land engagement is more uniform. At my skill level I cannot see any difference between rounds loaded with my RCSD and my Dillon seating die. Hope this helps. timestamp='1335123931' post='1688338'] I have not been able to get the OAL variation below +/-.005" on my Lee Loadmaster. I have a Redding Competition seating die and have added "C" clamps to the toolhead to prevent verticle movement. Even when I segregate the ammo produced from each shellplate hole I still get variations of +/- .004". Although this drives me bats, I calculate a difference of .010" OAL only makes a ~1.3% difference in case volume. So, forgeddabouit ... Ray

If you like RL-15 (I use it in my 7mm-08) give MR-2000 a try. Meters much better with the added benefit of a slight velocity increase.

Kineteks, As explained to me by both Redding and Dillon techs, the following statements are correct. 1. If using a seating die that seats off the bullet tip, if you measure using calibers you will get a more consistent OAL reading 2. If using a seating die that seats off the ogive, if you measure with a bullet comparator you will get a more consistent OAL reading. You are correct when you state that bullet variance will not affect round OAL when seating off the bullet tip if you measure with a caliber. If you measure with a bullet comparator you will see a variance since it measures off the ogive. Also, in this case, you will have a greater variance of each round from the chamber size on the ogive to the distance to the chamber. As you also summarized, when using the redding competition seating die, you will see a wider OAL variance when you measure with calibers. Assuming the bullet variance is between the ogive and bullet tip, the redding competiton seating die will put the same "length" of bullet in the case. When seating off of the bullet tip, the bullet length variance will cause the "length" of the bullet seated in the case to vary. As to your question about tight tolerance and OAL the answer should be no. The redding competition seating die is designed so that the seating stem is approximately the same size as the chamber. Therefore if using the redding die you will see a larger OAL variance when measure with caliber but there should not be an issue other than you may have a magazine fit issue if your desired OAL is close to max magazine length. There should not be any issue with the bullet contacting the rifiling as long as the OAL was setup for your individual gun. I would think the Redding die would yield better accuracy since the distance from ogive to chamber engagement is consistent for all rounds. As you stated, i'm not sure my shooting capability would notice the difference except maybe longer distance rifle shooting. This was the first time I have ever measured my bullet lengths because of the wild OAL range. I'm not sure if this range of variance is standard with Montanna Gold bullets or not. I did measure some Nosler 308 bullets I have and their variance was much tighter, in the .002 range. The purpose of my post was to educate those thinking of using the Redding Competion Seating die of how it is designed to work and alert them they would probably see a wider OAL variance if measuring with a caliper. Thank you very much for your inputs.

Latech15 I follow a similar process as you. Did you ever consider using a universal decapper in a single stage? This way you would only have to tumble once and and run thru your 1050 once. This is the process I follow and I find it is not much slower than doing it your way for the initial depriming.

Paul, Just a suggestion as food for thought. Use the 1050 for your small primer calibers (9mm, .223, and .40) and use the 650 for large primer. This way you would only have to worry about changing the caliber and not mess with the priming system. You are correct, tool heads and conversion kits for the 1050 would cost you roughly $325 for each caliber but you could get by with just buying the conversion kit for .223 and .40 since you already have the dies.

Racer, I measured my bullets before starting and my readings were in line with what you have listed with most in the .576-.579 range. At the time i was not concerned with the variation because the Redding seats off the ogive and not the bullet tip as the dillon seating die. I don't have the proper tools to compare but this is leading me to believe the MG's vary just as much in the ogive area as they do in length. Thanks for all your imput.

Sarge, I am with you on that. The micrometer feature is nice for quickly adjusting different bullets but from my experience detailed in the thread my results are much worse than the standard dillon die. I also have one for my .223 and 7mm which I haven't tried yet. So I guess I have 3 to sell.

JAXShooter, Thanks for the advice I'm not sure I understand how the length of brass would affect bullet seating as these dies seat off the ogive. I'm used to some variance but never saw this wild a swing with the Dillon Seater die. Also I'd like to ask what is your thought on when I ran them thru a second time they all came out within a range variance that I would have expected (+/- .001 versus +/- .005). My concern is that if I see this type of variance (especially longer) that I could run into a situation where the round is setback when chambered thus increasing pressures if I were to increase COAL in the future. If you are also seeing this type of variance on your loads then I don't see what I gained by spending the money for this die over the standard Dillon die. Thanks for your input.

Racer, Thank for thought. Yes the dummy round was without powder. I'm not using a compressed charge as i'm only using 4.3gr of 231. I did not have this type of variance with the Dillon seater die. Again, thanks for the input.

I recently purchased a Redding Competiton Seating Die due to their reputation for consistent OAL and the ease of adjusting for different bullets with the micrometer. I'm loading on an RL-550, using FC brass (HST brass) from the same lot in 9mm. I'm loading Montanna Gold 124gr CMJs. All other dies are Dillon dies. I set-up the die according to the instructions. I then adjusted the die to an COAL of 1.135 with all toolhead stations full when making the adjustment. I loaded five dummy rounds and they came out within the range of 1.1345-1.1355. I was certainly excited at this point. I then loaded 100 rounds. Of the 100 rounds approximately 60 where more than .003 greater than my setting (1.138-1.141). I was expecting the first few and the last few rounds when the shellplate is not full to be off but not that many or by that much. I then reinserted the 60 rounds in station 3 and ran them thru the seating die and crimp die again. The 60 rounds then came out in the range of 1.1345-1.1365 with 2 or 3 outlyers in the 1.132 range. This is what I would have expected the first pass thru the press. Any ideas on what I might be doing wrong? Appreciate any help you can offer. Thanks.

This was not the experience I had about a year ago. My tumbler is the large tumbler model which I purchased in the mid-80's. When it quit working (after 25 years) I was not offered an RMA for repair, I was offered a replacement at half price. While half price is a good deal on a new tumbler, with return packing and shipping it would almost cost the same as a new one. Twenty five years is great service for a product and I'm not complaining about that. I complaining about the change in warranty I was offered on the original purchase. I was also told that Dillon would not honor the "lifetime warranty" on my RL-1050 purchased in the mid-80's although the original owners manual clearly states lifetime warranty, no exceptions noted. When my casefeeder quit working I was told "we will send you a new switch but if that doesn't fix the problem you will have to buy a new casefeeder". Luckily for me, the switch was the issue. I certainly do not consider it fair that Dillon can change the terrms of their warranty at will. I realize the 1050 was designed like a tank so it could be used in a commerical setup but mine has not been used that way.. I still own Dillon products and will continue to use them because they are good products but I cannot jump on the "NO BS Warranty" is great bandwagon without a large asterisk which stands for SOMETIMES. As my components break/wear out I will now take a very hard look at competitor products. I would not have made that statement 5 years ago.

This time with picture.

I would like to thank everyone again for their insight and help. To close this off, I wanted to provide a quick update. This issue was the OAL as many suggested. After adjusting the reloads for my barrel, the OAL that will work with my gun and this extremely long Berry's bullet is 1.030 (Bart I'm with you, I will never use this Berry's bullet again). I have attached a picture so those unfamiliar with the Berry's can see it. The left cartridge is the commerical load I shot (115gr) the middle cartridge is my original reload at 1.123 and the two right cartridges are my new reloads at 1.030. Again, thank you very much all.

First, I would like to thank everyone that replied with good info. Bart, for my education, where can I find the SAAMI minimum OALs like you quoted? I do have 3 manuals (Speer, Sierra, and Lyman). Two of them are old so recommendation noted. I believe that the crimp is fine and as most have stated, it's the OAL with this particular bullet. My crimp is at .3765 (.0005 from removing the bell) and cases are not buldged. Yes I am using a taper crimp and it is a separate operation from seating. That may not work. Take a look at the profile of that Berry's 124gr hollow point....it's very long, and has the ogive way forward....sort of a strange shape really. It's more of a truncated cone. When seated to the lengths as a standard FMJ, it may make contact with the rifling. Just one more reason for me to hate Berry's bullets I agree, its OAL. My reloads are at 1.123 and the commercial load I shot was 1.125. As Bart states, the issue appears to be the weird profile of the Berry's bullet and I will need to reduce the OAL and adjust the powder charge. I have used Berry's in my .45, .40 and .357 without any issue. After these reloads, I will be using MG's with a normal profile and will not have this issue. I will continue using Berry's for other calibers but will not use the Berry's HP in 9mm. Again, thanks to everyone for all the help .

Fairly new forum member. Need help with proper powder charges. For background information, I have been reloading for 25+ years, mostly pistol. Recenlty I have started to reload for 9mm and have run into an issue I've never had before. Unlike most of the experts on this forum, I do not shoot competition, most of my shooting is plinking/target shooting and teaching my sons proper shooting stance, trigger control,etc. My problem with 9mm reloads. I started by using the data in my Speer 14 manual. Made a batch of 50. Since I didn't own a 9mm pistol at the time, I tried them in my friends Glock and they worked perfect. Based on this I loaded up a large batch of reloads. I recently purchased a Springfield Armory XDm 9mm 3.8 Compact. Went off to the range with my reloads and the rounds failed to go completely in battery (admonishes self for failure to barrel check reloads in MY pistol). My reloads pass my Dillon case gage with no issues. Sizing die is set properly for full length resizing. The reloads were: Berry's 124gr plated HP COAL: 1.123" (manual states 1.120-1.169) Bullseye: 4.2gr (also have 231 and American Select available for use) Cases: mixed headstamps Crimp: .3765" When I returned home, I barrel checked my reloads and barrel checked with commerical loads of 115gr. The commercial loads dropped into the barrel with the expected "kerplunk" and fell right out. My reloads fell into the barrel but did not enter as far as the commercial rounds. This has led me to the conclusion that my reloads need a shorter OAL due to bullet profile, hence my dilema. Shortening the OAL will put me below the minumum OAL of the manual. This takes me out of my comfort zone since I have never done that and I do not know how to adjust the powder charge appropriately. I have been told that plated bullets should be loaded using lead bullet data but I cannot find any specific lead loading data. I did find jacketed loads in an old Sierra reloading manual that showed the 124gr with an OAL of 1.080-1.090, well below my current manual. I have not had the chance to play with my reloads to determine what the final OAL needs to be to work in my pistol so I cannot tell you the new number. As a side note, the 115gr commercial loads I shot were also below the minimum stated in my reloading manual at 1.125 (manual states the min for RN is 1.135). Can anyone point me to where I can obtain proper load data for when I reduce the OAL below the manual's minimum or how to properly calculate a load range when reducing OAL? I guess I could avoid the headache and just give my reloads to my friend since they work in his Glock and start over with some new MG's but I really would like to further my reloading knowledge and learn how to do this properly and safely. I apologize for the long post and look forward to your guidance and the wisdom of the experts on this forum. Thank you.