GOF
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Posts posted by GOF
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ICORE requires a 120 PF and only one round out of 6 has to make it. 3.4 - 3.6 Clays in a .38 case will get you there with the 160 Bayou. I've never used that bullet, but if it has a crimp groove/cannelure, use a roll crimp there for your OAL. USPSA needs a 125 PF... don't know if you can get there with Clays in a 627... never tried it. Win 231/HP38 will do it if Clays won't. Might need 5.1- 5.5 grains, but you can make 125 in a .38 with it.
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Clays for heavy lead bullets to just make PF. WSF, 231/HP38 are good for jacketed slugs. I load 9mm, .38 and .45 ACP for IDPA/USPSA/ICORE, and those three powders handle them all very well.
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Your dot sight sits higher above the bore than iron sights, so if you zero at a close range the bullet is still rising to meet the dot at longer ranges. I would zero your gun at 25-30 yards, and you should be good to go for any USPSA match.
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Just thinking math here: In an 8 stage club match, shooting ESP, the maximum number of reloads a shooter will be required to make is 8. A string in IDPA can't require more than 18 rounds. There is also a good chance there will be a stage or 2 out of those 8 that is 11 rounds or less. And, most club matches run 6-to 8 stages, so there may not be more than four or five reloads. But, let's assume 8 reloads.
If the insert mag/overhand rack the slide reload is smooth and practiced, it won't take more than .5 second longer than a reload hitting the slide release. 8 x .5 = 4 seconds - or 8 down points. The OP states he shot the IDPA classifier with the non-slide lock gun and significantly beat his previous times with another gun. The Classifier has 2 slide lock reloads required, so they apparently were done smoothly.
If the accuracy/handling/transition factor enough to negate those "8 down points", then the slide down reload could be a wash. If the accuracy/handling/transition factor provides noticeably less down points than his other gun... and beats those "8 down points", it could be a gain. I wouldn't automatically discount the non-slide locking gun.
The best course is to just go shoot it in a club match and see how it does. It may not be a handicap if the shooter is real comfortable with it.
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If your 'math' is not perfect... everytime... it will bit you on the butt at some point. That's the only drawback I can see. If you do use it, tell the SO, in advance, that your slide does not lock back. That will save him from becoming distracted... and looking for PEs... when you dump with the slide forward.
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Motosapiens... look at the scores from major Sanctioned Matches. Then find what the winners were using. There are some 1911 shooters who do well. There are others running Glocks or M&Ps that do equally well, or better.... especially your sponsored pros.
I shoot a M&P standard 4.5 inch gun (with trigger job and new sights). I did well with it the last time I shot it in a 250+ shooter sanctioned match a few years ago (I'm focussed on revolver now). Shooting CDP/EX, I won that Div/Class by 15 seconds, beat a few Masters, and finished 4th overall in CDP. That doesn't mean the M&P is best, it just means it's best for me.
There are CDP guns that aren't 1911s that compete well. I think reliability is one factor, and you can get a consistent trigger pull that will rival a 1911.
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CDP is intended for .45 ACP. I think the original intention was to have a place where 1911s could be competitive, but with Glocks, HDs and M&Ps showing up (and winning)I guess there's not much that IDPA can do about that other then to keep CDP to .45 ACP only. Unless, if they truly want to make CDP the last refuge of the 1911 .45 ACP, then maybe the Tiger teams could ban anything other than a Single Stack 1911 45 ACP.
I do think that any firearm that passes the size/weight/etc. requirement, and can be loaded to SAAMI safe 165 PF (10mm, .40 S&W, .357 SIG) should be allowed. But, I don't make the Rules.
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Thanks Much, Bill!
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Thanks for the info guys, but I'm familiar with the 200 grain .38 factory loads. Back in 'the day' when I was involved in LE, we referred to these as "widow makers'... not for the guy that got shot with one, but for the guy who did the shooting with no ill effect on the perp, and paid for it when the perp's gun started shooting back.
The reason I'm looking for a componant 200 grain lead .358 bullet is to make some Major (165) PF loads from a .357 gun using .38 Spl brass. I believe that I can get that slug safely to 850 fps/170 PF (in a .357 gun) with less recoil and muzzle blast (it will be sub-sonic) than I can using lighter bullets that would have to run more than 1050 fps. I have taller interchangeable front sights that I can slip in to account for the fact that the 200 grain slug will print significantly higher than the Minor .38 loads the guns are zeroed for.
I just need to find the bullets.
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I'm looking for a commercially available 200 grain RN or pointed cast lead bullet .38/357. Does anyone know of one? All help appreciated.
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I'm sure the TTs will fix that
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Thank you, Craig. Your scientifically-trained mind has cleared the matter up beautifully
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Hey Craig,
Thanks for the tips. I've already got the DOH Blade Tech on the way, so I'll see how that works... but I'll darn sure keep your advice in mind.
And yeah...powering up my IDPA loads??... Hey, Bro... you and I know that most of the educated shooters were running 115-120 PF (closer to 120 in my case) anyway.... but the TOTALLY COOL thing is that only one chamber out of six has to toss that 158 grain slug at 760 fps.... like most revo shooters, I've figured out I've got a couple of fast cylinders... so ICORE chrono will be a snap.
Hope to see ya at a ICORE match somewhere along the line. Always enjoy seeing you, even though you smoke me every time! BTW... are you shooting 2013 FL State in SSR? If not, I might. Let me know. The only reason I didn''t shoot SSR in 2012 was 'cause I figured you'd be there. You weren't!!! A missed oportunity for me.
Chris
Edited to get the right dates, due to brain fade on 1st try.
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I think those rulings come under the heading of "Tribal Rules", enacted by local clubs, or ill-informed/rookie SOs who happen to get dragged into the officiating process at Sanctioned Matches (seen too many of those!). They don't seem to be in the Rule Book.
I think the Tiger Teams are addressing the SO issue
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for my 2 cents.....Shoot CDP
Rational: unless you are reloading, have downloaded your ammo to 125,000 and set up your gun with springs that will run with this lighter load, you are at a disadvantage. You will be shooting normal .45 loads around 165,000 which will be a disadvantage over the 9mm shooters......IF it's about winning.
IF it is about shooting what you bring, then having 10+1 will get you shooting how you would carry and that has something of a positive as well.
Me....I would shoot it apples to apples and shoot CDP rather than apples to oranges in ESP.
Garry N
A big +1 to that! Shoot CDP. Unless you have the ability to download a reliable .45 ACP load to the 135-140 PF range you will be at a disadvantage in ESP.... even though the round capacity is the same.
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Kim Rhode has been a top competitor since she was a teenager. She deserves every medal she has won because she worked her rear end off to get to the point that she at... the best in the World at what she does. Her accomplishments are the result of what has to be 'natural talent'... good coaching... and hard work on her part.
I've shot International skeet in the past, and to shoot a 99x100 under the pressure of Oylimpic competition is an INCREDIBLE feat! She had to have REALLY hit the "Zone" that every competitive shooter strives for, but few achieve... especially under that kind of pressure.
She has the physical and mental skills to be a World Class shooter.... in whatever discipline she chooses. If she ever decides to get into handguns... I think the USPSA/IDPA/ICORE world had better look out!
She's only in her early 30s... at her physical peak. It would be interesting to see where this World Class shooter goes from here.
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I have not shot USPSA in awhile, but if the Minor PF is still at 125 then just about any .38 Special load with bullets 160 grain or less is going to require a +P pressure/powder charges to make that PF. If your K-frame is a .357 gun it's not a problem, but I would be hesitent to run a lot of +P loads through a .38 K-frame.
If I was going to go with the .38 I would choose to shoot lead... the pressures per velocity
can be a bit less. If smoke from the burning bullet lube is a major concern, have you tried the 158 grain swaged bullets from Speer or Hornady? They use a hard lube that produces very little smoke. I've shot a pile of them at 125 PF on indoor ranges without comment. Just a thought.
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+1 to everything said - as it applies to semi-autos. However, if you're running a revo in competition the flat points will slow up your reloads and cost you time. Other than that, they're great.
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Thanks for the tip, Gregg, but I think a trigger guard/hold speed rig might be a bit too much culture shock for this old IDPA shooter right now
. I did call Blade Tech and spoke to a charming lady named Rory who told me a DOH rig for a 6 inch GP-100 was no prob and on the way, even though their web site doesn't show it as available.I'm looking forward to ICORE. Nobody seems to want to play revolver in IDPA.
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i've tried ruger in the store, grip is too small for me, i like a bigger grip of s&w or taurus
Revolver grips are easy to change. Most experienced, upper level, competitive revolver shooters (ICORE, IDPA, USPSA) automatically assume that they are going to have to change the grips on the revo to something that fits their hand. It's not hard to do. As long as the gun is solid and accurate, the grip work is a minor thing.
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The Ruger SP101 is a very quality piece of gear. Look around, get the best price new (you might find some used, but maybe not... most of these guns get kept) and you will have a fine .22 revolver. The new 4 inch 8 shot is SWEET!
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Wouldn't any S&W L frame holster work? My kydex holster for my 5" 625 works fine for my 4" GP100.
Thanks, that's a thought. If I can find a 6 inch L-frame rig I might give it a try.
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Sorry to ressurect an old thread, but.... I shoot a 4-inch GP-100 in IDPA and have all the gear. I want to shoot a 6 inch GP-100 in ICORE (now that we have a couple of clubs in FL that are close enough to drive to)... I'm having trouble finding a ICORE legal Kydex holster for the 6 inch. Can anyone help?
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GOF -
The rulebook has information about equipment, but almost everything is fair game for holsters. 120 power factor is NOT with the "IDPA tip back" but the chronograph procedure is different than IDPA.
Thanks. ICORE will be a new game with familiar gear, so I'll learn it as I go. I'm looking forward to it. IDPA is getting 'a bit old' with revolvers. Nobody seems to want to play, and there's not many more than a dozen or so SSR shooters scattered around the country who will really make you sweat at a match. I'm looking forward to a new level of competition.... that's one of the reasons I shoot in compeition... it makes you reach deeper and dig harder to be better.
. I did call Blade Tech and spoke to a charming lady named Rory who told me a DOH rig for a 6 inch GP-100 was no prob and on the way, even though their web site doesn't show it as available.
38 special load
in 9mm/38 Caliber
Posted
Can't speak for everybody, but I use either a Speer or Hornady 158 swaged LRN. Your Bayous will be just fine. Just like the 45 ACP, heavy bullet and fast poweder works in .38... and handles steel better than lighter bullets.