Maksim
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Posts posted by Maksim
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I hate DQ'ing a shooter as well. I've been RO'ing since 1980. Got my
first RO card in 1984 (still got the card). I've only DQ'ed 3 shooters,
but two of them have been in the last month. The other one was about 10
years ago. RO'ing is a very important part of our sport and the rules
have to be followed.
3 in almost 20 years?
How many matches do you work per year? How many warnings do you give out? That number awfully low.
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What's wrong with this picture?
Awesome, Smith & wesson finally making an M&P with a decocker on the side.
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I was amazed to hear that S&W is the "first gun company to be able to make a 1911 work in 9mm".
I guess the Springfields, Kimbers and STIs.... what, didn't work? or something?
1st to make it work reliably without major mag issues or gun issues requiring it to be sent back every 6 months? yes.
I have an m&p pro 1911 in 9mm with external extractor... 10 or 15k rounds through it, without one issue with Wilson 10 round mags.
Can't say the same for my friends shooting kimbers and springfields. lol.
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This is a really interesting thread, and I am learning a lot, as I am fairly unexperienced at USPSA shooting. I've been on both sides of this issue.
The very first official USPSA match I went to was with a friend who was really into it, a very experienced shooter. All my previous experience was with informal fun matches at an indoor range with multiple lanes. Standard procedure was to have multiple shooters engaging targets on multiple lanes, as you've probably seen at your local indoor ranges. So on my first official outdoor match, when the shooter before me finished, I walked over to the berm at the back of the shooting bay, faced the berm at a range of about 1 yard (facing about 9:30, if 12:00 is straight down range), and carefully loaded my pistol. I then reholstered, and went back to the starting box. When I performed this procedure, all other shooters were straight down range, so at my 4:00 or further back. When the RO told me to load and make ready, I said, "Ummm...I already did." His eyes got pretty big, but when I told him exactly what I did, where and how, he explained the 180 concept to me (I had never heard of it before, having never shot at a formal match outdoors before). He let it go at that and I shot the rest of the match without incident. Was he right to let it go under those circumstances for a first time shooter who didn't know the rule and had driven 3 hours to attend the match? I'm not sure. What do you guys think?
Last summer, an experienced shooter (A class, I think) drove several hours to our local match, and as the first shooter of our squad on the first stage, lost control of his weapon on the intial buzzer. During the initial draw, the pistol went flying skyward, rotating in all directions, and came down to thunk and bounce on the ground. Since I was scorekeeping and was standing right behind the RO, I was scared spitless. The RO graciously but clearly DQ'd the shooter. I think he was right to do so.
Thanks again to all who have replied so far. I'm learning a lot.
frayluisfan
Example 1.
the bad is on you for assumming, the bad is on your friend who did not explain... but most of all, unless you were the first shooter, what were you doing not watching every other shooter on your squad before you? Didn't your club have some sort of a new shooter orientation? this is completely unreasonable thing to happen. Ie... if you have an RO watching your gun, why would you think it is ok to go downrange and load your gun by yourself? Has nothing to do with 180, and everything to do with listening and following directions. In any case, RM should of been called.
Example 2.
"I think he was right to do so. "
there is no think. Clearly a huge safety issue and was absolutely without a doubt a DQ. Nothing to think about.
Maybe we take safety a bit seriously around our local clubs, but it irritates the shit out of me that it seems so many other clubs use USPSA safety rules as guidelines and choose when to DQ a shooter, and choose to ignore what in their minds is "minor" stuff and only enforce a DQ when the shooter lets one go. In my eyes, when that round goes off, it is wayyyyyyyy too late.
Part of the reason I got into, and stayed shooting USPSA, and as heavily involved as I am now is because of the impeccable safety record. It is so safe because of the rules. Don't mess with the rules, and absolutely not the safety rules.
Edit: Driving 3 hours, or a 5 hour flight does not relieve you of common sense. It does not mean you can ignore the rules.
To answer your question, Maxsim, no, there was no "new shooter orientation", and there was no run-down of any of USPSA's rules. There was no RO watching my gun, and no explanation of any standard protocols. Why do you assume that a brand new (to USPSA) shooter would pick up this kind of thing on the first stage? Have you forgotten the nerves and sensory overload you exprienced at your first match? Some things that we take for granted as "basic" or "obvious" are only basic or obvious because that's what we've been taught, and what we have seen reinforced over and over. And the driving 3 hours reference in my post was not meant as an excuse for "ignor[ing] the rules." In order to ignore rules, one must first be made aware of them. I was totally unaware of the rule. Maybe you should step back a minute and take a deep breath before you assume that I ignored/disregarded instructions.
Still the issue is, did you not watch any other shooters in your squad as to how and what they were doing?
In any case, if you are going to your first match, you better know the general rules, not just show up and wing it.
My first match, I had an experienced shooter, like you did, tell me how things went and I watched everyone else. The first things out of my mouth were...
1. What are the rules?
2. What will get my DQ'ed?
At our local clubs, we have all new shooters go through a brief orientation, and then we also run a newbie class once or twice a year, especially with all the new people that my forum is getting into the sport.
USPSA was my first gun competition, so when I went to IDPA, I did not assume, I asked.
In any case, it is up to you to know the rules. No one is going to win their first match, and the number one concern should be safety, and number two is watching other shooters. I don't believe you did either, as if you did, you would not of gotten dq'ed gotten a warning for doing something really stupid.
The only excuse you can give is "It was my first match and I was the first shooter."
Where were you when every other shooter went ahead of you? Did you not watch what they were doing?
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This is a really interesting thread, and I am learning a lot, as I am fairly unexperienced at USPSA shooting. I've been on both sides of this issue.
The very first official USPSA match I went to was with a friend who was really into it, a very experienced shooter. All my previous experience was with informal fun matches at an indoor range with multiple lanes. Standard procedure was to have multiple shooters engaging targets on multiple lanes, as you've probably seen at your local indoor ranges. So on my first official outdoor match, when the shooter before me finished, I walked over to the berm at the back of the shooting bay, faced the berm at a range of about 1 yard (facing about 9:30, if 12:00 is straight down range), and carefully loaded my pistol. I then reholstered, and went back to the starting box. When I performed this procedure, all other shooters were straight down range, so at my 4:00 or further back. When the RO told me to load and make ready, I said, "Ummm...I already did." His eyes got pretty big, but when I told him exactly what I did, where and how, he explained the 180 concept to me (I had never heard of it before, having never shot at a formal match outdoors before). He let it go at that and I shot the rest of the match without incident. Was he right to let it go under those circumstances for a first time shooter who didn't know the rule and had driven 3 hours to attend the match? I'm not sure. What do you guys think?
Last summer, an experienced shooter (A class, I think) drove several hours to our local match, and as the first shooter of our squad on the first stage, lost control of his weapon on the intial buzzer. During the initial draw, the pistol went flying skyward, rotating in all directions, and came down to thunk and bounce on the ground. Since I was scorekeeping and was standing right behind the RO, I was scared spitless. The RO graciously but clearly DQ'd the shooter. I think he was right to do so.
Thanks again to all who have replied so far. I'm learning a lot.
frayluisfan
Example 1.
the bad is on you for assumming, the bad is on your friend who did not explain... but most of all, unless you were the first shooter, what were you doing not watching every other shooter on your squad before you? Didn't your club have some sort of a new shooter orientation? this is completely unreasonable thing to happen. Ie... if you have an RO watching your gun, why would you think it is ok to go downrange and load your gun by yourself? Has nothing to do with 180, and everything to do with listening and following directions. In any case, RM should of been called.
Example 2.
"I think he was right to do so. "
there is no think. Clearly a huge safety issue and was absolutely without a doubt a DQ. Nothing to think about.
Maybe we take safety a bit seriously around our local clubs, but it irritates the shit out of me that it seems so many other clubs use USPSA safety rules as guidelines and choose when to DQ a shooter, and choose to ignore what in their minds is "minor" stuff and only enforce a DQ when the shooter lets one go. In my eyes, when that round goes off, it is wayyyyyyyy too late.
Part of the reason I got into, and stayed shooting USPSA, and as heavily involved as I am now is because of the impeccable safety record. It is so safe because of the rules. Don't mess with the rules, and absolutely not the safety rules.
Edit: Driving 3 hours, or a 5 hour flight does not relieve you of common sense. It does not mean you can ignore the rules.
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pick up an Invicta. They look like the Omega's but at around $100. Great watch.
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Not really, the furthest local match is about an hour and a half, 75 miles. If anything, would consider shooting different type of match at local place.
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corrupt database tables?
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Exactly.
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I use 5.0 grains of N320 with those bullets out of my SVI. 5.1 made 177 pf. 5.0 should be around 172. Soft and sweet.
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Yes, they all do.
the US import law requires all toy guns to have the orange tip, however it is not state law in most places to have them. Hence why many here locally will just paint them black or take them off.
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Came a day early. These things are awesome! Works and breaks down just like a real tanfo. Will take it to a chrono tomorrow. hehe.
I have 4 guns that were paid for and going out tonight/tomorrow, and have 3 more that folks were interested however did not receive funds... so if you were one of them, claim it.
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Had exact same situation. New guy. Put one in the berm before I could even say something. Shooter was trying to rush. No reason to get dq off of the clock.
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I think the best thing for this match would be to add staff. As an RO, the RO coverage was not enough, and we were working for 3 days, with shooters who need more attention (safety wise). Even Nationals, with arguably less difficult stages has much better RO coverage per stage.
Lastly, I don't think any safety infractions should be ignored, no matter how "minor" people seem to think they are.
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thanks for the tips. I was in a position that i CLEARLY saw the 200+ break but i was i guess" in shock" that I didnt respond fast enough. the stage only had 4 shots left on paper after he did it and it was over before i knew it...I am looking into the Ro classes.
if you saw it, it does not matter if he finished shooting or not, stop, there, call Range Master.
the problem is, you are not doing these shooters a favor by letting them go, and a warning.
the worst is when you give a shooter a warning, and instead of paying attention to you, all they care about is how they shot the stage. Safety is the most important part and what makes USPSA what it is. No one goes home to think about the warning you gave them, they go home wondering about how they shot. If someone was breaking a safety rule, there is no place for it, especially people who should know it. Only way people will focus on safety is by going home and focusing on why they did not finish the match, and not getting their scores.
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Well Ill start off by saying that Im new to posting, and new to the sport of USPSA. Ive been shooting this sport for about 2-3 months now and have fallen in love with it. Today was a "learning experience". It all started when I decided to sign up on a blank squad page today ,as all the other squads I normally shoot with were full. I ended up being signed on with 5 other shooters that were all either out of towners and/or new shooters (1-2 matchs under their belts). I am a member of my club and since I was the only member on the squad I was in charge of ROing.Im new to it but I have ran alot of other shooters without incident. So now Ill explain the 5 DQs that I should have issued but didnt, and now kinda regret.
First DQ: Shooter had to move forward shoot an array of steel and paper, then move back a few feet as he was moving to his left. He broke the 180 with a reload, I issued the "180" warning as he was still a new shooter and this was only stage 2. I pulled Him aside afterwards and explaind the safety hazards and that he really needs to be more aware.
Second DQ: Same as first DQ but with a differnt new shooter.
Third DQ: Same as the first 2 but this was an experienced shooter who appologized as he did it and was aware he made a mistake, so I let him slide with a warning.
Fourth DQ: Same experience (OPEN) shooter from the thrird 180 but this time while at the table loading mags he drew his(unloaded) gun to show me his comp... I told him to put it away and that he should know better
Fifth DQ: Same new shooter from the first 180 Offense ,was backing around a wall while moving to his right and pointed the gun at about 200+ degrees towards the crowd watching. (not directly at them but really close). By the time I realized how bad the offense was he had finished the stage and I didnt have time to stop him. I told him that if it happened again he WOULD be DQed no questions asked...But this was the last stage of the day so I let it go.
So to finish I feel that a failed as a new RO because I was to "scared" or nervous to DQ someone for the first time, and I didnt know these shooters that well. Im going to be more attentive from now on and wont be so passive next time. Thanks for listening to me yammer on...
You don't DQ people, they DQ themselves, you are just the one informing them, not even that. It is stop, unload show clear, hammer down, holster. Call Range Master.
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Thanks Nik. Email is en route to Vlad. hehe.
this will determine and probably make me want to work Nationals again.
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When do the local clubs get them? =) So I know when the remind my MD for all the hard work I put in.
Then to decide if I work one, shoot one.
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woot woot, congrats grandpa
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Here locally, more and more are coming up in production, alot less in Limited. I think there were 2 people shooting them at the local matches.
they are pretty nice guns.
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Hennings basepads, the small screws screw into the basepad.
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Depends on the match.
at the local clubs I may clean once after the match
At nationals, and at Area 8 I had to clean after every stage because of the sand in vegas, and fine gravel in VA. This was not even an SVI, but a Tanfoglio.
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njgunforums.com/forums
I hate giving a DQ
in Match Screw-ups
Posted
The RO stepped in and saved your butt before you were to get DQ'ed. You were lucky.
The RO's job is not to make sure you have a great match, score well, or not DQ yourself. It is a courtesy as a shooter. The RO's job is to ensure safety on the range.
Running and gunning is as dangerous if not more than driving drunk. It is your responsibility to know the rules. When you play the game, you accept the rulebook.
If you are a new shooter and people know about, yes you will get more attention, and maybe some leeway, such as RO stopping you before you DQ yourself, or yell "finger", however no one is owed that.
It just sickens me that at some places I have shot outside of my local area, and comments from other ROs from different parts of the country that rules somehow don't apply and people should be let go for breaking the 180, walking with finger in trigger guard, etc.
The very last local match, a friend of mine DQ'ed himself for putting one into the ground while changing stronghand to weakhand after reload. Stop, unload show clear, hammer down, holster. Call RM. No RO should feel bad about it. You did not make the shooter DQ themselves, nor should it ruin your day. Another friend of mine DQ'ed himself when the gun dropped during make ready trying to reholster.