beltjones

Agreed 100%. "It's a volunteer sport" is the familiar refrain. However, the decision needs to be made whether the "sport" is run professionally, or run for the enjoyment of one's friends. Too much is left to the discretion of the local MD in level II and higher matches.

Congrats to Yong Lee btw. He's a very nice guy. Ok, sorry for the thread drift. I'm out!

I've only been to one Area match and I didn't win anything, so I don't know how this typically works. What did Bob Krogh win? I have to say, this calls into doubt Max's claim of winning 8 area matches in a calendar year. In theory he would only be eligible to win A4.

Did they give Yong Lee a special trophy? I'm just curious.

Wasn't Bob Krogh the winner?

Relax guy I thought competitors had to tear down the last stage they shot. You were spot on Mosher. The competitors at the Classic were supposed to help disassemble their last stage at the Classic. But apparently since it was a major we should all just sit on our butts..???? Let me go pull my match book, but I don't remember hearing this requirement during the shooters meeting, and none of the ROs mentioned it to me.

Any updates for this match?

I was charged.

Stage 3 getting tossed is no big deal. The rest of the positives to the match so outweigh a little prop snafu that it's hardly worth mentioning. The stages in this match were really, really fun. The amount of work to build the handcuff stage, the trap-door stage, etc was substantial! Thank you! The coordination to have all of the shooting done in time for a live band to play and for a proper crawfish boil to take place was also really, really impressive. You guys know how to run a match. I wish I could have stayed for awards, but time didn't permit it. Next year I'll find a way to stick around, for sure. In the meantime I'm really thankful for all the work the organizers and the MD put into the match. You guys are the reason this match sells out so fast, that's for sure.

I disagree with USPSA needing to set any "guidelines" on something like a prize table policy. It should be up to each match to decide. Given the number of issues involved with getting prizes (especially firearms) to winners who don't/can't stick around to pick them up at the match, I think those folks probably should accept some level of personal responsibility for finding out what the policy is for each match if they know they will need to leave early. As far as this year's MS Classic, I can certainly understand there being some hard feelings. There were quite a few people who forfeited their prizes because they chose to leave early, including a couple people who had their names drawn to win guns from the prize table that were not there so the guns went to other shooters. I don't think there should be too many hard feelings though because the Match Director DID clearly state that shooters must be present to win when he put out the announcement about the match. Check the first post in this thread: http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=164483 John First, I think I made it pretty clear that it should be up to MDs to decide how to run their prize tables. This thread wasn't specific MS Classic, but since you brought it up as an example, let's discuss it. Did the post you linked specify when the prizes would be distributed? Was it clear to competitors it would be after the match? Not all random draw prize tables occur after the match is complete. In fact, doing the random draw Saturday night during the Crawfish boil might make sense, no? Also, I really don't understand the "must be present to win" thing. We all pay an equal match fee, we're not basing prizes on performance, so why penalize people who need to leave before the prizes are distributed? What is the downside to allowing people to appoint delegates in case they are lucky enough to win something? Someone who needs to drive home in order to make it to work ought to have the same opportunity to win something as someone who lives nearby, otherwise it's not truly "random draw," it's "random draw with local preference."

I spoke to the President this weekend. I think his name is Chris, but I'm bad with names. He's just coming off a really bad health issue (it's his personal business - I don't want to get more detailed than that) that was keeping him down for a long time. He seemed very committed to making things right with customers who are waiting for product (that includes me). They're still in business, and he's aware of the problems.

I'm starting to think a wiki of sorts might be a good idea. Everyone is always saying how the organization should be more member-driven, so I think it would be good to have members provide relevant data for a given match. Forget the guidelines, the shooters can add relevant data. For example, regarding the MS Classic last weekend, I would add the following: Random prize table - must be present to win. Awesome live music and all you can eat crawfish Saturday night. Bring bug spray!

This was a really fun match. I wish the weather reports would have warned that mornings in Mississippi would be "buggy" in addition to foggy, but what can you do? heh. Thanks for the great time. See you next year!

I was going to say the above is a little pedantic, but this is Enos, and we sweat the details here. heh. The problem is, if 70 people ask the match director, then 70 people might get answers. That doesn't mean the rest of the folks will get answers. It also doesn't mean the MD will give everyone the same answer, and it doesn't mean the MD will do what he says when it comes time to distribute prizes. Having the prize table policy stipulated on the match website is a "best practice" that can only improve the match experience of competitors. Like I said, I don't think there needs to be a rule created, but having a checklist (or some guidelines) published by USPSA is a good idea.

Should the prize table policy of a given match be a surprise to the competitors when they show up, or should USPSA issue guidelines on how to inform competitors of how the prize tables will run? Before we go down that road, I'm not advocating that USPSA make a rule on how to distribute prizes. What I'm suggesting is that on the registration form there should be guidance on how the prize table will run. For example, it would say, "Cash prizes to division winners, random prize draw, must be present to win." Or, "Prizes awarded in order of finish, if not present must appoint delegate to collect prize." Or, "Prizes awarded in order of finish within class (1st A, 1st B, 2nd A, 2nd B etc), must appoint delegate IN WRITING to collect prize." It's a little annoying to go to a match only to find out you scheduled your flight to take off a couple hours after the last stage, but it's a random prize table and you have to be present to win. It's also helpful when deciding on which matches to attend if you know the prize table is distributed in a way you think is fair to the competitors. In other words, D-C class folks might prefer to go to matches with random prizes and out of towners might not go to matches where you have to be present to win a prize. Not to mention, it can be really difficult at a match to find out exactly what the prize table policy is. Often no one but the MD seems to know, and he can be difficult to track down. I don't think there need to be complex rules about this stuff, but if USPSA is reviewing stages for acceptance as a level II match, it's probably a good idea to also issue guidance on what information to include in a registration form.

I'm not sure you get how the rules work. It would be exceedingly easy to design a stage that does not REQUIRE more than 8 shots from a location, but in which virtually every SS shooter would choose to do a standing reload. I can't require you to do a standing reload, but I can certainly present options that make you choose to do one.

Are you stating your preference or an actual interpretation of the rules?

Also, re-arrange everything so it looks like stage 11 from Prod nats and it works as well. Or, we could just discuss the stage at hand.

Yes, you can see all 8 targets from one view. But are you REQUIRED to shoot more than 8 scored shots from that location? I strongly doubt you can convince me that you are REQUIRED to shoot more than 8 rounds from that location.

I don't think you can define it that way. There are stages where you have to shoot every round through a single port, but you as you move laterally through the stage you see different targets through the port. By your definition if I'm sending rounds through the same port - even if I move 20' from the original shooting location - it's one location/view.

I don't think the rule says anything about being forced to change your view. It seems to me if enough of the shots are available elsewhere on the stage then it should be legal.

So if you can shoot all of those targets from one view it's illegal? Allow me to quote the rule for you: 1.2.1.3: "Course design and construction must not require more than 8 scoring hits from any single location or view..." In what way is it required that you shoot all of the targets from the same location or view? Is standing on the rear fault line not one location or view, and standing all the way up at the port another?

Reasoning?

If this were a poll as to whether or not this was a crappy (part of) a stage, the results would be 100% yes. Fortunately that's not the question. At all. But it's not illegal just because it's a crappy stage or just because some SS guys might choose to do a standing reload.

I don't think you can substantiate that with the rules.