3GunF1Guy
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Posts posted by 3GunF1Guy
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I am just wondering what everyone thinks about the flying birds with a shotgun? They are totally Un-practical, but they sure are fun to me. Things like pigeon flipper poppers and real throwers. For example at our match we are having this weekend we will set up 3 electric throwers (like they use for sporting clays), the stage will be a fixed time stage but when you call "pull" you will get 3 birds (or maybe 2 birds and a rabbit) you have to hit them or it is a miss for each. This is totally un-practical, (unless you happen to have you combat shotgun, it's pheasant season and 3 birds fly up) but I am sure it will be allot of fun and really test your ability to hit moving targets with a shotgun. Lead has never been tested in 3-gun. Is this a good idea or would everyone hate it?
BTW +1 to almost everything kurtm said in this post. He is on the same page I am when it comes to how 3-gun should run.
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Whiles were on the subject of chokes and the diffusion choke there are some people who think that a choke work in a much different way than is stated in this thread. A diffusion choke spins the shot column and causes it to spread faster. You do no want the choke to "strip" from the shot or slow down because that make for a tighter pattern. The school of though is that a choke is a wad-stopping device and the more choke you have the more it stops the wad. If the wad were to stop completely at the choke you would have a very tight pattern due to the fact that the shot is going in a straight line and will continue to do so. An open choke will allow the wad to “push” into the shot column after leaving the barrel and disturbs the shot and make it spread. If you study the Ballistics Products books well you will notice that they have a wad called the Trap Commander made out of thick plastic, this thick plastic wad will slow down more in even a cylinder bore and give you what appears to be a modified choke or a +2 choke constriction. Whereas the thin plastic wads will come out of the end of the barrel and push into the shot column and causes it to spread more. After the wad comes out of the barrel it has a tremendous gas push behind it, it is this push of the wad into the shot that spreads it. The tighter the choke the more the wad slows, the more the wad slow the less push it has into the shot and less spread. The diffusion choke use centrifugal fore to spread the shot with even less choke constriction which gives you a much faster spreading pattern.
Scott Peterson
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I don't mind rules when I fuly understand them.
IMGA's rules are three pages.
USPSA rules need a Philadelphia Lawyer to delinate.
(for example see rule 8.1.1, 6.1.1,6.1.3, 8.1.3 those are fictional numbers but if you have read the rule book you get the idea.)
USPSA does run very safe matches.
I like seeing and using chamber flags.
The 3G NATS rules worked very well.
I wish USPSA would rewrite thier rules in a less complex matrix.
At almost everyone of the "outlaw" matches that I have been to they almost always say that in default the saftey rules will be the USPSA rule book. The rules may only be 3 pages but they use the USPSA rule book.
Scott
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Just to test people I thought they should have put the plates on stage 6 at about 75-100 yds. Yea I know we would have had about 100 complainers but you need to have a good 100 yds zero on the shotgun and that did not get tested in this match.
Scott
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If you did not come the USPSA 3-gun 2005 nationals because you have meet range lawyers at USPSA pistol matches, you missed out. I saw NO range lawyering and did not even hear of any at this year 3-gun. I was on squad 2 and we had a great time shooting the match. A lot of people had to shoot stage 10 in a lot wind and some didn’t. Our squad shot it in dead calm air, we were lucky, an hour earlier there was some real wind that made it REAL hard to hit a 326 yard swinger. If I had shot it in the wind I would have said, “That was hard, we were unlucky.” but I would not want to have the stage thrown out. I did not see any protests and shotters shot it and dealt with it like gentlemen. (This may be a broad statement and I am not trying to speak for everyone) I think 3-gunners are a little different than some of the range lawyer pistol shooters. As someone who runs an "outlaw" club everyone should really have an open mind to the new rules of USPSA 3-gun. It really made no difference to the speed the match ran. I agree with kellyn statement at the start of this thread.
Scott Peterson
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I was one of the people who really wanted to see uspsa go to a time plus, I went to this match with an OPEN mind and had a really great great time. The RO's were great the stages were well .. not the Ironman. Short fast and you had to plan how you were going to shoot each stage carefully or it would cost you. The scoring using the San Angelo was really a nothing. What I mean is, I want to look at each target I shot at anyway (it is a national championship) and in that time it was very easy for the RO's to score it. In comparison to the MGA style scoring I use at my mathes in Utah, it went just as fast. So for this match it would have been a wash.
Woops sorry kelly.. back to the match.
When I was talking to some of my squad mates we all said it was like a 3-gun club match match with lots of props and 12 cof's. I shot way slow, but had a great time. I was a little disapointed in the stage design. No weak side shotgun or rifle, and not even one 3-gun stage. Also not even one flying clay, I love those!! Waaaayyy to much pistol for me. If you look at the range design there could have been a greater test of rifle marksmanship using some of the unused bays. I know that uspsa is growing in 3-gun and they took a big step forward. Good job to everyone who did stats and RO'ed and all the rest of the people involved. THANK YOU!!!
Scott Peterson
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Anyone have a good outlet for .40 once fired roll sized brass?-------Larry
Why would you need roll sized brass? Just wondering.
Scott
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For a while there I though it was Michael Jackson. It is also more like "Can You Erase?"
Cool though
Scott
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You know the start of that joke is almost like the start of the Rocky Horror Picture Show. Unfortunately it does not have the cool music or Tim Curry in it.
Scott
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Good Luck!!! I have been looking for 6 months and can not find a 1. Speed Shooters, Shooters Connection .. nothing. Brownells has even droped them from their catalog. If you find some please post it and let us know.
Scott
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My Gold is a Gold Hunter Turkey model that is no longer made. I found the gun new for $750 and it came with a $100 rebate from Browning so I only paid $650. It came with a 24" barrel with turkey sights on it. The turkey sights are not very accurate and I have recently added a set of Williams fire sights that are much more accurate. The gun will group slugs at 100 yds in an 8" circle. I left the barrel length at 24" and use a mod choke in it. It is a 3" gun. After I had it for about a year I sent it to Briley for a trigger job and to polish the bolt, the trigger job is great but when I got the gun back it looked like they spent about 10 min on the bolt because it didn't look much different than when I sent it to them. I don’t think you need the bolt polishing but AH6IP (Rocking H Tactical) would know better than I would.
Scott
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For me the Gold is fast, shoots soft, has the ultra cool auto load feature, did I mention fast and soft. The auto load feature for me means that I only need to learn 1 loading technique, whether the bolt is locked open or there are rounds in the gun my hands always do the same thing. You do not have to remember to drop one in the port and then hit the release button, then load the remaining shells in the mag, with the Gold all you do is just jam shells in the magazine as fast as you can, this means less fumbling for me, and faster times. It has been ultra reliable and for me it does not jam when it gets dirty. The only gas system that is better is the Beretta 391 and the Gold is very close to as good as the 391. In my gun it will run at least 1000+ shells with even thinking about cleaning the gas system, I am sure it will run WAY more than that, I have just never ran it past about 1200 rds without cleaning. It will run 7/8oz 2 1/4 dram shells for my daughter (Yes that is like a 28ga shell in power, NO recoil at all) all way up to full power 3" mags without jamming. In the 4years that I have shot mine I have NEVER relaced a worn or broken part on the gun! All I do is shoot it and clean it.
Scott
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Oh yea I always clean it and then run a box through it just to make sure it is .. well, Put together right
Rifle, pistol and shotgun.See you vegas!
Scott
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This is an old topic but I thought I would bring it to the front. Last April (4/29/05) we had a local 3 gun match and after that I cleaned the browing. Since then I have:
1- practiced for the mgm Ironman about 250 shells
2- shot the Ironman about 350-400 shells
3- normal practice on reloads and shooting with gun, 250 rounds at least
4- local match on 7-30-05, 100 rounds
5- practice for the 3-gun Nationals, between 250 and 350 rounds
On saturday when I was practicing reloads, shoot 6, reload 6, shoot 6, on a plate rack I let a woman who was at the range shoot the gun and she has a failier to feed on the gun. I shot it about 50 rds after that and it still worked. I am now going to clean it and take it to the 3-gun nationals next month. I think that the browning is great gun and for me is reliable as can be asked for in any shotgun.
Scott
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I believe Stage 10 has a point count error. There are 9 papers worth 90 points, 1 flasher worth 5 points and 6 flashers worth 15 points each (PP2 is an activator). That totals 185. Did I miss something?
I get 9 paper (90 points) 2 pepper poppers (10 points) and 6 flashers at 15 points each (90 points). To me that adds up to 190 points.
Scott
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All of this crono thing may just be a moot point. Lets say they do start to crono and I shoot my birdshot over the crono and it reads 1050, 1150, 1025. The crono proccess could be protested becouse the cronos have not been calibrated NOT to read the wads. Is there any way to prove that it was not the wad being cronoed? Having shot many birdshot over the crono this does happen. For my own use I just throw out the reading I thing are too slow. I think the only true way to measure the speed of birdshot is to use a highspeed camera. This may also apply to slugs that have nonattached wads. Is the start sensor reading the front of the slug and the stop sensor reading the front of the wad, that has slowed down? Is there any way to prove it didn't? I have only shot Fiocchi areo slug that have attached wads over my crono so I don't know?
Scott
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You guys may be right they could force us into shooting positions based on stage design. That would be cool! And make the match alot more interesting.
Scott
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Fiocchi has a low recoil slug that is made in the USA. In Missouri I think. (although I am pretty sure the are using imported components. Like Hondas made in Ohio) I shoot the full power Fiocchi slugs because I like how flat they shoot and will run the gun. I have seen sooo many low recoil slugs that FTF out of some guns it is not even funny. It does take some tuning to get a low recoil slug to run.
As far as lowering the power factor my vote is not to. Leave it at 520 or move it to 550 and make it major power factor. USPSA does live by DVC. If you want to shoot low recoil stuff then lets make 480 or 450 minor power factor for shotgun. About whatever a 20ga is with standard buckshot and slugs. This would not be hard to do with the new scoring system. Most things shot with buckshot are 5 point steel anyway. Calibrate the steel at minor power factor and then the people who want to shoot major can engage steel from farther back and sooner on a stage that requires movement and the minor shooter have got to get closer to make it fall. With slugs on paper the low recoil has more drop at 100 yds with the full power shooting a little flatter this MAY be an advantage to the "major" slug shooter. This proposal would make a lot of sense. And the scoring is just as easy as the minor, major rifle that we will be using in vegas.
Scott
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While were on the subject of stages, I assume we have all seen the stage descriptions and I am just wondering??? (I hate to be critical.. but) There is not even one stage that requires strong side and weak side shotgun and rifle shooting. We get plenty of strong hand, weak hand pistol in regular matches, but no strong side and weak side rifle and shotgun in the 3-Gun NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP?
What's up with that?
Scott
BTW the tower stage at the Ironman is always one of the most fun times anyone can have while shooting.
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I received this from the post office at the first of the month. I own a business that does bulk mail and printing.
"Suspension of Standard Mail and Periodicals Mail acceptance to storm-stricken areas
Effective immediately (September 1, 2005), the Postal Service is not accepting any Standard Mail or Periodicals Mail — from any source — addressed for delivery within the following three-digit ZIP Code ranges: 369, 393, 394, 395, 396, 700, 701 and 704.
This emergency action has been taken as a result of severe facility damage, evacuations and other issues resulting from Hurricane Katrina."
If any standard or periodical are or were in those zip they just get put in the post office's big recyling bin. The First class is forwarded and is trying to be delivered wherever thay can find the people.
I don't know what zip your in but you may not get it.
Scott
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This is wierd
Bloody Tom Vane
dirtypool40 and I have the same name. BTW I married a Latino.. hmmm.. maybe that has something to do with it?
Scott
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My concern is based on the fact that when I did lob a few over the skyscreens a while back, the shot was getting along at about 1020 - 1040 fps and the slugs were doing 1075ish. I got very erratic results and wasn't sure if the reading were correct anyway. These speeds don't inspire confidence in me as the results were gotten with the sensors fairly close and the reading were all over the place with only two being close and those were the ones I assumed were on target (pun intended).
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Regards,
To me those reading look like the wads. That is about what a wad is doing 3' from the muzzle, depending on the choke of your gun. Remember a choke is really a wad slowing device on the end of your gun. If you are shooting a 3 dram (1200 fps) 1 1/8 oz load it should be going faster than that. Sometimes it is a trick to get the crono to "see" the lead edge of the shot string.
Scott
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George, You should be O.K. on the birdshot. Here are my calculations:
With a 1 1/8oz 3dram (1200fps) shotshell it will be going about 1116fps out of an 18" barrel, times that by 1 1/8oz (492.2gr) equals a 549.2 power factor.
Here is how I crono shotshells, I use a CED and set it up just like I would for pistol, Sky-screens and all. Set it about 3-6 feet in front of the barrel of the shotgun about the same distance you would for pistol. You will probably have to move it front to bake to find the proper place for your shotgun. Don't shoot too low because the shot is spreading but at 6' it is only about 4" in diameter. You need to look at the crono after each round because it will measure the speed of the wad sometimes. I have shot many shells over the crono and I have only gotten a couple of pellet holes in the uprights of the sky-screen. If you get a really wacky reading it is usually the wad being measured.
Good Luck
Scott
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+1 to gunny's response.
I would like to see it stay 520. If you buy crap wal-mart ammo you may have a problem. I shoot a browning gold and would love to see the heavy rounds in everyone else's gun. I say the more the gun moves the better shot you need to be to shoot it well.
Rifle, pistol and shotgun.
Best Slugs For The Browning Gold
in Shotgun - Technical
Posted
I shoot the Fiocchi full power slugs out of mine with no problem. Hey, the gun shoots so soft why bother with reduced recoil that does not always work.
Scott