rmills

"I Desire Potent Alcohol"? In regards to creating "higher classes", why? One of the things I see in IDPA that is a positive is the comraderie between all of the shooters no matter what the level. The classes we have work fine. Why change to be like some other sport?

In building an Open Glock, since the inertia issues are different than with a 1911, should one go with a short slide (Glock17) or a long slide (Glock 34)? Does anyone make a barrel that is ported similiar to a Glock 24L ported barrel (oblong holes) along with a thread at the end for a comp, that will fit a 34? Thanks

In building an Open Glock, since the inertia issues are different than with a 1911, should one go with a short slide (Glock17) or a long slide (Glock 34)? Does anyone make a barrel that is ported similiar to a Glock 24L ported barrel (oblong holes) along with a thread at the end for a comp, that will fit a 34? Thanks; Roy

Larry: Would you please advise us as to the source for your information regarding your comment? There has been no indication from HQ that the rules clarification process was scrapped. I will pass your comments along though and ask the question. Honestly, the rules were fine. There were just too many individuals who came from an IPSC or USPSA background who didn't like the fact that the rules could not be "gamed" around. As mentioned in the above posts, airgunning is addressed in Competition Rules 2 and 3. These rules also address any other nebulous area in which a shooter wants to circumvent the stated intent of a stage.

Don't forget the FTN Penalty. For example, if a target requires 2 hits and it has one in the -3 area and one miss, the shooter will be penalized: 1.5 seconds + 2.5 seconds for the miss + 5 seconds for Failure to Neutralize. An IDPA target has a 5,4,2 scoring zone that one does not see. At least 4 points are required to neutralize the target. 2 hits in the -3 or one hit in either the -0 or -1 will prevent the FTN penalty.

Comments in regards to "Hit Factor" do not apply to IDPA. This is an "IPSC or USPSA" term. IDPA is scored via Vicker's Count (Raw Time + Penalty Seconds for poor hits). IDPA places an importance on fast shooting AND accuracy. If one is going to hose in IDPA, they better get good hits.

Yes, you will get a walk thru with the SO (unless it's a secret, hidden, surpise stage) after they read the stage description, BUT you will not be allowed to point your fingers at the targets as if taking a sight picture.

One of the principles of IDPA is a stable set of rules. In regards to the recent rule book review, it's purpose was not to create new rules but to clarify existing ones. A lot of work went into the process with input from Area Coordinators and SO's. Once HQ approves, it will be published.

There is no "Major" or "Minor" criteria in IDPA. Only a "PF Floor" for divisions. SSP, SSR, and ESP are all 125. CDP is 165. In IDPA the focus is on shooting ability, not on how one can reload to achieve a softer feel. If one wishes to shoot 10mm, they can do so in SSP or ESP. If you want to load them hot, go ahead, if not, then don't. It's the shooter's choice. It's all about shooting, not equipment.

You probably will be if you are pointing your fingers at the targets in a sight picture fashion. Here's a response from IDPA Headquarters in regards to the airgunning question. A previous poster was absolutely correct when they said that the issue was already covered by Competition Rules 2 and 3. ==================================================== The BoD never intended airgunning to be a part of IDPA competition. At the time, they were of the opinion that the current competition rules would eliminate airgunning. Unfortunately, it did not. If you would like to get your folks to stop airgunning, please refer them to competition rules # 2 & 3. Airgunning is considered an attempt to circumvent or compromise the spirit of the stage and unsportsmanlike conduct. We are currently working on a rulebook clarification that will have this spelled out where there is no longer any question about it. Thanks, Dru Nichols IDPA Administrative Coordinator

# of stages, rounds? Thanks!

I'm not complaining, just stating the logical facts. We are increasing membership at our local IDPA matches thanks to many of the USPSA issues discussed in this forum. Combining Limited 10, Production, and Revolver (as one forum poster suggested) into one division will certainly help to further increase IDPA membership. I know that sensible BOD members like Gary Stevens will resist any sort of nonsense such as combining the divisions. However, with the recent rule changes, nothing would suprise us anymore. With the additions of divisions such as Tactical Rifle, what's the big deal with Open 10. Why did USPSA need a Tactical Rifle division? Don't get me wrong, I'm all for creating any division that attracts more shooters to the organization. If Tactical Rifle does it, great!

On page 3 of the current rule book, it states that no sight pictures are allowed, with no reference to a pistol. However, later on in the rulebook it talks about a sight picture with a pistol. This is why the rules clarification committee was formed. At two recent state matches the rule was enforced and no one had an issue with it.

I mostly shoot a Glock 35 in SSP class, but I also have an STI that I used in ESP class. It's a .40S&W caliber with: wide (not extended) dustcover, Heinie Slant Pro sights, ambi-safety's, and an SVI magwell (yes, the gun does fit in the box with this magwell and a 126mm mag with SVI Box Rule Wedge mag bases). The load I use for IDPA, both in my Glock 35 and STI, is an 180FMJ bullet with 3.1 grains of Clays, loaded to 1.140". It consistantly chrono's out of both pistols at a 139PF. It shoots very soft with no recoil (much less than a 9mm IMO).

The rule book doesn't address air gunning, but at the nationals it was discussed as being the equivalent of taking a sight picture with a pistol. From what I understand (someone please correct me if I'm wrong) it was enforced. Over the last year, several Area Coordinators as well as SO's were tasked by headquarters to clarify (yes clarify, not change) the rules so that a revised rulebook could be issued reflecting those clarifications. Headquarters has been slow in addressing those efforts. Here in Ohio, I understand many clubs are now enforcing this. I'm just curious what other clubs are doing...................

Starting this year, we are considering giving out Procedural Penalties (3 sec) for anyone caught "Air Gunning". There's been talk as to the new rule being enforced at last year's nationals. What's everyone's opinion in regards to this? Thanks!

Shred: My logic in putting up a post regarding eliminating Limited 10 was to check the rationale of people who advocated not starting an Open 10 division as Open 10 should be created for the same reasons Limited 10 was created. This topic quickly produced the results expected as many of the "I've got mine so who cares if they can't get one" shooters quickly responded about how Limited 10 should stay. Then it got very interesting as the direction of the topic changed to "let's get rid of Production, Limited 10, and Revolver divisions, and just dump them into one as we don't shoot in them so who cares".

The previous poster obviously has no knowledge of IDPA or it's rules. This person states that the gun mags continue to post "negative" topics in regards to USPSA, yet takes his own shot (totally uninformed) at IDPA. In regards to Limited 10 being a "Beginners" division. How ridiculous. Limited 10 was created to provide a division for a person to compete in using current, legally available equipment. If you don't believe this, get the BOD meeting minutes from which this division was created. In looking at recent posts, not only in this forum but also at the USPSA forum, It would appear that the small minority would like to see Production, Limited 10, and Revolver, all thrown into a "Beginners" division. If this happens, IDPA membership will grow again. This clearly demonstrates the lack of vision that's killing USPSA. For what it's worth, USPSA match attendance here in our local area has dropped off significantly over the last two years. Most club's match attendance (based on 4 local clubs) is down at least 40-50%, yet at local IPDA matches, the attendance continues to grow.

Walt did. He said "Let's start IDPA!"

Gordan: I'm not "jumping" to IDPA as I have been shooting IDPA matches for 2 years. Although at this time, USPSA is in a decline (both in membership and participation), after competing in USPSA matches for 13 years, I certainley hope that new leadership emerges and saves the sport as I do enjoy shooting USPSA type matches.

Thanks for everyone's replies! It would seem that everyone accepts the concept of Limited 10, why it was created, and very much support it. The very same reasons that Limited 10 was created should be the logic used to create Open 10. I was just trying to prove a point with this topic. Thanks to all who reinforced it!

Since almost everyone is opposed to creating Open 10, it would be appropriate to eliminate Limited 10, as the decision to create it was based on the unavailability of legal hi-cap mags. In reviewing the posts opposing Open 10, the "too many divisions" comment kept coming up in reference to Limited 10, Production, and Revolvers.

Warpspeed: Your numbers are skewed. Keep in mind that there were two separate matches at the Race Gun Nationals allowing the same people who shot in Open and equal opportunity to shoot in Limited. At the Factory Gun Nationals, one had to choose their division. If that had not been the case, the numbers were be much larger in the separate divisions. In regards to Open 10, again the "I've got mine so who cares about them" USPSA attitude spews forth. Sure, forget the shooters in California, you don't live there so who cares. Also, for those who think that the ATF doesn't mind about building illegal hi-cap mags, why don't we invite them to give us their views on the issue? Some in this topic feel that it's OK to break the law. Let's make sure that anyone who reads the above posts stating that it's OK to break the law and that the ATF has no issues with it, feels comfortable risking criminal prosecution based on what opinions posters in this forum have. I'm sure that there are legal statutes that they must be able to reference or a letter from an ATF agent who states that while illegal, they don't care and they will not prosecute anyone who illegally builds hi-caps for sporting purposes. The rational for Open 10 is exactly the same for Limited 10. Let's allow shooters who can only purchase legal equipment to compete in this sport. STI and SVI have been out of pre-ban, hi-cap mags for many years, period. The only way a shooter can compete in Open today is to obtain legal hi-cap mags or build illegal ones. If 10 new shooters decided to shoot Open today, there are not enough pre-ban, hi-caps available for each one to purchase 4 or more. Look at the USPSA classifieds, Brian's classifieds, and other sources. The number is not there. If a vendor is stating that they have "New, legal, Pre-Ban, SVI or STI, hi-cap mags available", one has to question where these came from. In closing, this issue is not about creating another division which will dilute the current shooting pool, it's about providing an arena for new shooters to come and play with legal equipment.

Warpspeed: You would probably see a large decrease in Open shooters using Hi-cap mags if the BATF was alerted to the practice of building Hi-Cap mags from replacement mag parts and they started showing up at matches to ask for verification that the Hi-Cap mags being used were legally purchased. Are you aware of anyone who comes to local matches who built their Hi-Caps illegally? I'm sure you know a few. Remember, it's a Felony. New shooters who wish to shoot Open should be able to shoot in a division with legally purchased equipment with no disadvantage. That's why we should add Open 10 if the AWB fails to be repealed.

We are all hoping the the current Assault Weapons Ban expires next year. BUT, if our leaders decide to keep it on the books, will USPSA finally create an Open 10 division since new shooters will not be able to purchase new, legal, hi-cap mags, just as they can't today? Since USPSA saw fit to do away with one of the basic premises of Production Division due to some shooters not being able to take a long shot with a DA trigger, l'm hoping they will also try to accomodate new shooters who want to shoot Open, but will not be able to do so without breaking the law.