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RAZZ

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    Question on bi-metal ammo

    in Multi-gun Gear & Accessories

    Posted

    I'm running a local 3-gun match, and a shooter posed a question to me I was hoping you all could help me with. In my match announcement, I stated to everyone that penetrator, AP etc ammo was prohibited--basically if the bullet attracts a magnet, leave it at home. I had one shooter ask about the bi-metal bullets commonly used in AK type ammo, as he stated it does not use a steel core--simply a mixture of soft steel in the jacket. I don't shoot Soviet ammo, so I'm not too familiar with bi-metal ammo. Can I make an exception for this stuff, or is it still a no-go? Steel will be MGMs shot at no less than 85 yards. I don't want to exclude anyone, but I also don't want there to be any possibility that someone starts shooting holes in my steel.

    Thanks!

    Club level 3-gun match in Tallahassee, FL

    in Multi-Gun, Rifle & Shotgun Match Announcements

    Posted

    Fantastic! Excited to see people from around the area coming in for the match.

    The match will start at 9:30, but the gate will be open (for competitors) as early as 8, so you are welcome to come out and walk stages. I don't need registration info beforehand, but if you have a number of people who you all want to be squadded together, feel free to let me know in advance, and I'll start building out a squad for you.

    Club level 3-gun match in Tallahassee, FL

    in Multi-Gun, Rifle & Shotgun Match Announcements

    Posted

    Scroll to the bottom for 3-Gun



    Saturday January 4th, Talon Range will host the Tallahassee Practical Shooters' monthly USPSA match. Here are the match particulars. E-mail me with any questions.




    When: Saturday, January 4th. Stage set up begins at 7:30. Sign up starts at 8:30. Shooters meeting at 9:30, with start of match immediately following. If it looks like we will have heavy / dangerous weather, I will make the go / no-go call as early as possible. We will have access to the range Friday night(s) before the match, and I will be out there around 5:30 setting up stages. If you'd like to come out and help, and it would be appreciated, or want to check out the range, come out and see me!



    Where: Talon Range. We are located at the interchange of Interstate 10 and US 90 in Midway, FL at the 192 exit (technically the North East corner).


    - From I-10, exit at 192 onto US 90 West. If you are coming from the West on I-10, you will make a left turn onto US 90 and proceed under the interstate to a stop light. If you are coming from the East on I-10, you will immediately come to a stoplight. To the West (left) you will see a Flying J truck stop (cheapest gas in the area, BTW), and to the East (right) will be a service road called Commerce Blvd that winds back towards the interstate. Turn onto Commerce Blvd. and drive .5 miles. Talon Range will be on your right hand side. For those of you with GPS, the coordinates are: N 30* 29.425' by W 84* 25.278'. Our address is 550 Commerce Blvd Midway, FL 32343 (Note the city is Midway FL, not Tallahassee). The road leading into our range is nicely maintained, so for all of you Ferrari owners out there, have no fear of making it down to the range.



    What: 6 stage USPSA match. Match entry fee will be $20 ($15 for those under 18). Cash or check are fine—no cards. Our match will consist of 6 challenging courses of fire--five field courses plus one USPSA classifier stage. Total round count will be less than 150 rounds. Our range was designed for competitive shooting, so expect a real USPSA match--179* ranges, steel--everything you ever wanted in a USPSA match!



    Instructions: Talon is a COLD RANGE. No bagging or un-bagging of firearms in the parking lot. Safe areas will be provided and clearly marked. Once you make it onto the range property, there will be signs designating parking and the registration / sign up area. For those who have already been shooting USPSA at Tallahassee Rifle and Pistol Club, we are going to keep sign up as similar as possible. One thing that will change, however; EVERYONE must fill out a Talon Range liability waiver. You can find the waiver here: http://www.talontraininggroup.com/Talon-Range/Talon-Range-Membership-Agreement It's a little lengthy, but it's thorough, and you only have to do it once...ever (unless we revise it). I will have copies at registration, but I encourage you to print it off and complete it beforehand to speed up the registration process. For Talon Range members who have already completed the waiver and have it on file, you will not need to fill out another one (but it has to be THIS waiver, which was revised 06/17/2013). Eye and ear protection are mandatory for both competitors and spectators. Spectators are welcome. We will even have an air conditioned lounge with TV to get your 'spectator' out of the sun for a while.



    Our pro shop is fully stocked with ammo (no limits on 9mm), snacks, drinks, sunscreen, etc.



    We will have a shooters meeting / safety briefing before the start of the match.




    New Shooters: If you have never competed in an organized shooting event--what are you waiting for!? We welcome new shooters, and will do everything we can to accommodate you. USPSA is a safe, fun, family friendly sport open to folks of all ages and skill levels (if you have a child younger than 12 that is interested, please contact me before hand so we can chat). You don't need a whole lot of equipment to start off--a safe and functional handgun in 9mm or larger caliber, a safe holster that covers the trigger guard and attaches to the belt, at least 3 functional magazines (more is better) and magazine holders to carry them, eye and ear protection, and a desire to have fun. Note: You will spend the morning and early afternoon outside, so dress appropriately and use plenty of sunscreen.



    If you would like a bit of instruction before competing in your first match, I encourage you to visit the Talon Training web page and check out our 'Introduction to USPSA Shooting' class http://www.talontraininggroup.com/. It will more than adequately prepare you for jumping right into a match. If you are a new shooter and plan on attending the match, please come out early so one of our experienced shooters can fill you in on how everything works.



    Thanks, and I hope to see you on the range!



    John Rasmussen


    Director Of Competitive Marksmanship



    3-GUN




    I have completed all of the stages, and have the final round count for our first 3-gun match to be held on Sunday January 5th.



    Rifle: 50

    Handgun: 25

    Birdshot: 56


    Now, keep in mind that this is the MINIMUM round count. Each paper target needs only 1 A hit to neutralize, so that is what my round count reflects. Most people, however, shoot two rounds per target, so your round count will be higher. Also note that some of the targets (steel plates, specifically) can often be engaged with either shotgun or handgun (check the written stage briefing) so you may end up shooting more handgun, and less shotgun than the above round count indicates.


    I decided to keep the first match a little basic, since this will be the first time many of us have shot 3-gun, so there will be no slugs or buckshot required. Keep your birdshot 7 1/2 or smaller (numerically larger).


    Just in case you are not able to make it one of my '3-gun rules and procedures' clinics, I wanted to briefly cover some of the things you probably want to know before your first match.


    Safety: Safety rules are just like USPSA, so all of the same things apply--180, ADs etc.


    ABSOLUTELY NO AP, ARMOR PIERCING, PENETRATOR, M855, GREEN TIP, BLACK TIP OR STEEL CORE RIFLE AMMO!! If your bullet attracts a magnet, leave it at home. Shooting any of the above mentioned ammo during the match is a match disqualification.


    Ditching of weapons: There are two conditions you can ditch your weapons in.

    1) Completely empty--nothing in the magazine, nothing in the chamber, nothing in the magazine tube--empty. In this condition, the position of the safety does not matter.

    2) Safety engaged. With the safety engaged, you are allowed to ditch weapons with or without ammo in the gun.

    Striker fired, or safe action pistols such as GLOCKs, M&Ps, and XDs are considered 'safe' simply by ditching them--nothing further is needed. If you have a pistol with a de-cocker, simply de-cocking the pistol renders it safe for ditching. Single action guns such as a 1911 must be ditched either completely empty, or safety engaged.


    Score-keepers and target pasters will not be allowed to proceed downrange past a ditched firearm, until the shooter and / or RO comes back and safely clears the weapon.


    Open Bolt Indicators: OBIs are REQUIRED to transport a long gun around the range. A spent shotgun shell, stick etc. are not acceptable. OBIs are cheap, and I'll have some at the match that I will sell for my cost, if you don't have one already. Once you have an OBI inserted into your completely unloaded long gun, you can transport it around the range un-cased.


    Pre-loading of shotguns: On any stage where the shotgun is utilized, competitors will be asked to pre-load their shotguns. There will be a table set up next to a berm for this process. When pre-loading a shotgun, the competitor is allowed to fill the magazine tube to their division capacity, and ground it on the table (magazine tube ONLY, NOT loading a round into the chamber on onto the carrier / lifter) with the safety on and OBI inserted. Once your shotgun is pre-loaded, you are prohibited from handling it again until it is your turn to shoot.


    Written Stage Briefing: Pay close attention to the WSB. It's very common for 3-gun matches to have unusual gun-ready conditions, that will change from stage to stage. Empty gun starts, or empty chamber starts are just as common as loaded gun / chamber starts.


    Divisions: I won't go into a great deal of depth covering all of the equipment rules for the different divisions, as they are available at: http://uspsa.org/RifleShotgunMultigun%20Rules%201-1-2013final.pdf


    But I will cover some basic stuff.

    -Shotgun capacity: Except for Open (which has no limit) all divisions are limited to 9 rounds in the gun AT THE START SIGNAL. Which means 8 in the tube, and one in the chamber for 9 total, unless otherwise specified. If you so desire, you can add more rounds to your gun after the start signal.

    -Optics: Having an optical sight of any kind on your shotgun or handgun automatically puts you in Open Division. Having more than 1 optic on your rifle also puts you in Open Division. For Limited Division, you are allowed 1 non-magnified optic (red dot sight) and / or iron sights on your rifle. For Tactical Division, you are allowed to have 1 magnified optic on your rifle, as well as iron sights.

    -Magazine length restrictions: Open handgun-170mm. All other divisions, 140mm. No magazine restrictions for rifles (except for my Law Enforcement Division).

    -Slings are only allowed in Open Division.


    Scoring: We will be using 'time-plus' scoring, which means your time is your score--any penalties or misses are counted as time added to your score. So if you complete a course of fire and have no penalties or misses, that's your score for that stage.

    Target scoring: Targets are not scored like a USPSA match. A paper target requires 1 A hit (the A zone, or anywhere in the head) OR 2 hits anywhere on the target to neutralize. So 1 A, or 2 D hits are the same thing. Steel must fall to score.


    See the rules linked above for a complete rules breakdown.


    If you have any questions, or are on the fence about shooting the match, contact me for more information (and I'll do my best to push you over the edge).


    See you on the range!


    John Rasmussen


    Director Of Competitive Marksmanship, Talon Range

    I think I just ruined my M2

    in Shotgun - Technical

    Posted

    Heck, as long as I don't run it dry, it works just fine!

    I'm not too concerned about it. There have been some very helpful replies in this thread, and it looks like it might be able to be fixed. If not, a few others here have already pointed me towards folks where I might be able to find a stripped receiver. That's why I love this place--you guys are great.

    I think I just ruined my M2

    in Shotgun - Technical

    Posted · Edited by RAZZ

    So I decided to open up my loading gate a little bit. I've seen pictures...I have a dremel...What could possibly go wrong? Well, a little bit too much 'opening' and the follower is no longer retained.

    FML

    I have nothing to lose now. Anyone have any suggestions whom I could send it to to fix my mistake? Benny already told me to buy an new M2, so I may be out of luck.

    ETA, I called Benelli and they don't sell stripped receivers.

    USPSA RO Class in NW Florida

    in Miscellaneous Topics That Do Not Fit in Any Other Forum

    Posted

    Not sure which forum to put this in, so I'll stick it here.

    Talon Range in Tallahassee, FL will be hosting a USPSA RO class on the weekend of Feb 22nd. The class will be taught by veteran NROI instructor Art Brown. Cost for the class will be $80, which will include lunch on Saturday. Saturday will consist of classroom, and Sunday will be spent on the range completing practical exercises.

    The class will be capped, and we currently have 10 slots still open. Contact me at: razzman1@hotmail.com for further info or questions.

    Club level 3-gun match in Tallahassee, FL

    in Multi-Gun, Rifle & Shotgun Match Announcements

    Posted · Edited by RAZZ

    Mods, I wasn't sure if this was the appropriate forum for non-major level 3-gun match announcements, so if this doesn't belong here, feel free to move it or delete it.

    On Saturday January 4th, we will hod our regular monthly USPSA match. Then on Sunday January 5th, Talon Range will hold its first 3-gun match. We aim to hold a 3-gun or 2-gun match quarterly, and we're going to try as hard as we can to not conflict with other clubs within 150 miles or so.

    The Jan 5th match will consist of 6 stages. All stages will require the use of at least two guns, with many stages requiring all three. We have never really shot 3-gun in this area before, so my first match will be new shooter-friendly. Rifle targets will be no farther than about 185 yards, and everything will be doable with a basic carbine and iron sights.

    I'll have more information shortly, but expect the round count to be somewhere in the area of 80 rounds each for rifle, shotgun and pistol (that's probably higher than what will actually be). I may throw in a few slugs too, once I get the stages nailed down.

    Our facility is located just west of Tallahassee at 550 Commerce Blvd, Midway, FL 32343. We are right at the I-10 / US90 interchange. Our facility has a pro shop stocked with ammo, snacks, drinks gear, etc, and we have a lounge with couches and a big screen TV, in case you bring a spectator who doesn't want to spectate.

    DSCF0555_zps8d77c3ec.jpg

    We will be using USPSA multigun rules, with one exception--I'm a cop, and I'm trying to encourage more LEO participation. So I am adding an additional division, which will be law enforcement division. Only open to active or retired LEOs, and your equipment will be limited to duty gear. No magnifiers or variable optics on rifles--iron sights or red dot sights only, duty shotguns, duty handguns, duty gear only (you can however add stuff like shotgun shell holders to your duty gear).

    I will post more as the match gets closer and I have a few more things nailed down. The match will start at 9:30 AM Eastern time. If you have any questions, feel free to post them here, or e-mail me at: razzman1@hotmail.com

    Titegroup in .45 ACP?

    in 44/45 Caliber

    Posted

    Went and chrono'd, and everything seemed fine.

    The stuff about blowing up revolvers was something from Cowboy Action shooters I recall from years ago. They all assumed early on that people were double or triple charging their loads--causing the KB. But they researched it enough to come to the conclusion that there was so little powder in the case, that all the powder simply 'settled' along the bottom of the case (in the firing position, ie horizontal). When the powder ignited, (if I remember correctly) it didn't burn from the flash hole forward, it all burned where the powder had settled. This allegedly caused a significant enough KBs that 1) it was looked into further and 2) 'fluffly' powder became more popular to fill more of the cartridge.

    Anyway, I wasn't there, just what I recall. Only reason it came up was looking into the case after dropping the powder.

    Titegroup in .45 ACP?

    in 44/45 Caliber

    Posted

    So I dusted off my .45 ACP dies to load up some 200 grn FMJ. I haven't reloaded .45 in probably 10 years, and I think last I did, I used Accurate #2 or something. I have a bunch of Titegroup laying around, so I figured I'd try it out. Got everything set up and dropped 4.6 grains of powder, and it seemed like it barely filled up a third of the cartridge. Is that safe? Wasn't there a rash of revolver shooters blowing up their handguns with super light loads caused by not enough powder in the case (which allowed the powder to basically just sit horizontal in the case when it went off). I'm sure it's fine--I've just been reloading nothing but 9mm for such a long time that I guess I'm used to seeing the case nearly full with powder.

    So I clearly need to pay very close attention to my powder drop, as it would be easy to double or even triple charge it without the powder spilling over the case.

    Thanks

    Can't use XM-193 on MGM targets?

    in Multi-gun Gear & Accessories

    Posted

    I see a warning on the rifle targets section of MGM that says:

    "WARNING: PLEASE DO NOT SHOOT STEEL TARGETS WITH 'XM-193' AMMUNITION. SUCH AMMUNITION IS INTENDED TO PENETRATE STEEL AND WILL CAUSE SEVERE DAMAGE TO TARGETS, INCREASING THE LIKELYHOOD OF FAILURE AND PERSONAL INJURY. DAMAGE TO TARGETS RESULTING FROM THE USE OF 'XM-193' WILL NOT BE COVERED BY THE WARRANTY."

    I had never heard of of XM193 being AP or a penetrator round, and I see gobs of people using it in matches. Is this really an issue or just a CYA for MGM? Or were they thinking M855 green tip ammo?

    Moving to tablet scoring. Which device is the best?

    in Operations

    Posted

    I am looking to get set up to do scoring via tablet, and was wondering what device, those of you who are using them, like best. I have shot matches with clubs using the Nook, and they seemed problematic--not very intuitive, screens hard to read once they got hot, freezing up while inputting scores, etc. The FN 3-gun match last month used Palms (I think) and they seemed much nicer, but I'm not sure if the extra cost is worth it.

    So what's the best?

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