2011 Build Parts Check

[chenault]

I've done A LOT of research over the last 6 months on building an open gun.  Finally, I've decided that on my budget and with my tools it would be best to let a gunsmith do some of the critical work (barrel fitting, slide lightening, fitting the frame to the slide); the rest I will assemble myself.  I've compiled a list of parts that I'm going to buy slowly over the next year or two and wanted someone who has done this before to just double check to make sure that they are all compatible, or to comment if they see something that could be done better. 

 

I currently have an open pistol, but my goal for this one is to have a pistol that is built the way that I would like it.  I've spent the past 6 months shooting enough of them that I think I know what that is.  

 

Here are my main parts, I didn't include pins or other smaller items. 

 

-CK slide (just to avoid the problems that STI has had with cracked slides)

-Phoenix Trinity Frame

-KKM barrel (supercomp)

-Phoenix Trinity Evo Grip

-Cheely 4 port Comp

-Brazos Tuned trigger group with a SV Shoe (I think these two will go together but that's something I need to double check)

-Aftec Extractor

-Tungston guide rod

 

I think these are the majority of the key parts.  I've budgeted $2800 for parts, including the C-More

 

I've also budgeted $800 for gunsmith work and need to know if this is ballpark

Again I plan on having someone like Freedom Gunwoks do the work, but I'm open to other smiths as well.  Based on their sight this is what I have budget for these things. 

 

-Tri topping

-barrel fitting

-porting the barrel

-fitting slide to frame

-slide lightening

-fitting comp 

 

I'm not stupid enough to think I know everything so I'm just looking for advice or changes that could or should be made. 

Edited July 14, 2017 by chenault

[tyler2you]

Based on what you're looking to do, I'd suggest contacting Glenn at Lonestar and having him build you a short block.

 

I'd go with a Caspian slide instead of CK and the Lonestar comp.  You might also consider one of the German X-Line triggers as well.  The SV is great, but the X-Line gives you a bit more in terms of length adjustment.

 

[chenault]

Why the caspian over ck?  

[tyler2you]

Based on what I've read here in the forums, Caspian slides are more durable and they're better about replacing cracked slides.  My first open gun had a CK slide and it cracked around the extractor tunnel after around 10,000 rounds.  

Edited July 15, 2017 by tyler2you

[chenault]

Ok, Phoenix trinity would also be an option 

[tyler2you]

Yep, a local guy I shoot with has used a PT slide.  He says they're hard as a woodpecker's lips.

[chenault]

So can you explain what a short block is

 

also, do slides come with a breach face or will one need to be installed?

[tyler2you]

Short block is a frame, slide, barrel, and comp (for an open gun) all fit up and ready to complete. 

 

Slides do include a breech face specific to the caliber.  Unless you're talking about a SV which may have an interchangeable breech face

Edited July 15, 2017 by tyler2you

[chenault]

Thanks Tyler I appreciate your time 

[rishii]

Another option for slides is brazos custom

he sell both caspain and sti slides already lightened 

http://www.1911store.com/slides.aspx

the price at first seem a little high, but once you consider the cost of the slide and the work that's done, it turns out to be Pretty reasonable 

[drewbeck]

I believe Brazos also sell lightened "Brazos" cut fitted short blocks but I could be wrong.

 

if you're trying to save money by buying parts and paying a GS to fit the major components but thinking you'll save a lot by fitting and finishing the small parts you probably won't save anything at all.

 

the time it takes to fit those parts if chosen by the gunsmith for how they like to build them is small and not costly if they're building the gun.

 

the reason "unit costs" by GS are higher is because they have to average their time it takes to fit various unknown parts or non working guns so they can make a living.  If however they are building the gun, they choose the parts that WORK and are quickest to fit for THEM on average.

 

the alternate to having these flat fees would be that they charge on a Time and Materials basis.  This doesn't work in the GS world because the guys that get charged $20 for a trigger job (because everything was close to fitting to begin with and it took 10 minutes) aren't nearly as vocal as the guy that gets charged $400 for the same "simple" job but it took the GS 5 hours of fiddle f$&@"? It to make the gun work to his satisfaction and to make sure you were happy.

 

it comes down to a matter of the cost of RISK on their part.  They would prefer to own their own destiny from the beginning that to have to fix or "make right" something not in their control from the beginning.

 

my point is that if money isn't your biggest concern, Buy the parts and finish the smalls yourself.  However, if saving money is your goal, find a local GS to buy the parts and build it for you.  No quality GS that primarily focuses on USPSA builds is going to use crap parts because their reputation is always at stake, on every gun they make.

 

$2,800 plus $800= pretty close to the price of a quality custom open gun if it doesn't have a popularity contest name associated with it. Nothing against the recommendations that always get thrown out on this topic but there are good of gunsmiths out there that don't spend the money on marketing and instead pass that overhead savings back to the customer.. i.e. You.

 

not sure where you're located but here in CO, Rick Hebert builds 90% of the open guns you'd see running at matches without issues  and he doesn't charge much more  for a full gun with the same parts built as what you're contemplating  spending on a parts and some machining with no guarantee it will run and shipping is easy.

 

dont get me wrong, I have built 2 open guns from raw parts but I chose to do it to learn knowing I would spend more money on them than he would charge me for a complete custom gun.   My point is, you won't save any money doing it, and you will trash parts to eventually be replaced.  if that scares you don't do it, if you value the learning process as much or more than the result, dive in and try it.  

 

Buildong guns is cool shit but you won't be money ahead until you build 10-15 of them.

 

 

[chenault]

Thanks for the response drew.  Since I have a working open gun my thought process was that I would slowly collect parts and have a smith do the parts that would effect the reliability, then do the work on the more simple parts myself.  

 

I admit, in looking at open gun cost that all seem around $5000 for what I want I was hoping to save money in this process.  I'm in Oklahoma so rick isn't that far away and definitely something to think about.  

[JFoley001]

I like where your intentions are at. Unfortunately, unless you already have a good amount of experience fitting parts, you will likely not save any money over a full custom. There will be parts you mess up and have to buy thrice (read safety), the headache that comes along with things not going as planned, in addition to learning things the hard way. This is assuming you haven't done this before. If you have, well, this probably wouldn't be a thread at all. 

 

The real question is: For X amount of money, do you want a full custom build from a reputable smith, or would you prefer the experience that comes along with building your own, without as high a regard for quality in the finished product.

 

Same price either way.

 

One option offers holding someone else accountable if things aren't up to snuff, which isn't likely to begin with.

 

The other option quite possibly ends up a $4k pile of paper weights in the shape of pistol parts.

 

[jnr88]

You need to budget finishing.