.40 super Tanfoglio?

[CSLFiero]

Hello forum. I'm by no means an expert in any of this stuff, but I've been wanting to get into a .40 super and i recently got a lot of trigger time with a cz platform (75bd). Loved it. Need one.

 

 so I'm debating how to go forward, and i guess i could ask a million questions, but i don't know how many answers I could get without having to become a nuisance. Anyway, I'm really quite serious, even to call cz customs. Mr. Wong if cz customs pointed me over to the 10mm witness as a starting point.

 

 it seems like a good place to start since he is sure a cz97 can't work. But I'm wondering if a 45 witness might not be a better choice. for reference,  the .40 super is based off .45 Winchester mag. It has 10mm COAL, 10mm projectile, but .45acp rim and width.  original spec called for 37k psi which seems doable since .357 sig czs are out there.

 

 so i guess i could just list a bunch of questions, but really if there is something i should be considering, please point it out cause i really am new and this  would be my first truly high end piece.

 

1: do large frame TF Mags have the same length and different followers, springs, lip profiles per caliber or will i need a 10mm mag to fit a 10mm coal cartridge?

 

2: If i need a .45 slide,  will i need a barrel bushing to fill the gap on a .40 cal muzzle?

 

3: If  get a 10mm barrel bored out, should i expect problems at ~37k psi?

 

4: Recommendation for a custom TF gunsmith? The budget is 3000+. I'll trust myself to draw a line somewhere before 6000. I honestly don't know of that's plenty or if I'm not actually ready to play ball.

 

 thanks fellas. I know I'm being really needy.

 

 

 

 

 

[CSLFiero]

starting a parts list!

 

base - stock iii (purchased)

barrel -  ???

 

gunsmithing - ???

coatings/case hardening - ???

engraving - ???

Edited July 15, 2017 by CSLFiero

[SoCalShooter69]

It takes about 80k before you crack a barrel in a steel gun. That's assuming you don't follow a squib, etc.

[DesertTortoise]

Had never heard of 40 Super so I did some googling
Call Tromix

http://tz75man.forumco.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=1333

http://www.tromix.com


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[kneelingatlas]

 

Woohoo!

[CSLFiero]

 holy smokes, if it's already been done, that's great news. Email to Tony sent. Thank you both.

[CSLFiero]

2 minutes ago, kneelingatlas said:

 

Woohoo!

 that's the one. I'd really like for it to work, and I'm getting excited that someone has already  tried it

[Open1215]

Ok. 1, mags. Tanfoglio 45acp mags should work.
2. Platform I would go 45 acp tanfoglio Hunter. 6in slide with a 45 breech face.
Buy a 6inch .40 s&w barrel and have the chamber cut for 40 super.

This would give you a great platform. Base gun under 1k or just at it. Barrel a few hundred. Chambered and got should be able to be done by any Smith I would think. Barrel fitting on these is pretty simple. Some 6in drop in. I had a 10mm Hunter and my 6in 38 super barrel fit from EAA.
Sounds like a awesome project. The Hunter is a 6in pistol that is a great fun. Hand fit slide to frame and should deal w 40 super fine. I've never shot 40 super but my 10mm Hunter with full power 10mm loads recoiled softer then a Glock 22C.
I think your 6k budget is a well within reach. I wouldn't say even 3k unless you are having a Ton of work done.
Best of luck and please keep us posted!
Hope some of this helps

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[kneelingatlas]

I image Dave Manson would be the guy to cut the chamber for you, I was also about to suggest the Hunter as well, it's a great value for what it is.  $1,500 should be plenty to get you going.

Edited July 14, 2017 by kneelingatlas

[CSLFiero]

aesthetically I'm not quite sold on those holes in the frame.. I can see your point though.

 

open, would a .40sw barrel be okay for 10mm coal?  is tanfoglio 10mm not fully supported chamber? .40 barrel might be easier/quicker to obtain if it is just as good.

[ATLDave]

10mm Tanfo barrels are fully supported, but, if the SAAMI chamber specs are similar to the case length specs, it will already have a chamber cut marginally longer than you want for 40 Super.  Since you cannot grow steel back, this might be a problem.  Presumably, 40 Super headspaces on the shoulder, not the case mouth, so maybe that doesn't matter, but it seems likely that a .40 barrel is more likely to allow you to achieve a SAAMI-spec 40 Super chamber.  

[CSLFiero]

Can you guys tell me if the Stock III has any particular features over a standard steel with rail?

 

I'm looking at roughly 900 for a used large frame, 45 LS, and .40 LS barrel. 950 gets the stock III and from there it's just a $191 barrel. Is it worth the $250 premium?

[kneelingatlas]

The full dust cover, the badass checkering, and flared mag well.  Honestly if you're not going to compete with it, I would save the money for brass.

[CSLFiero]

checkering and magwell sounds like stuff I'd have a gunsmith do anyways, so i went for it! Money is now flowing..

 

next! .40 barrel. Should i seek a cone barrel and get the slide machined or...? I saw in another thread atlas mention jim at custom gun innovations can weld and fit straight barrels tight enough to be equal.

 

reamer! I don't have a lathe, should i leave this to the gunsmith? Tony hasn't messaged me back yet, so i don't really have someone willing to "be liable" for making this barrel (naturally I claim full responsibility for this project).

 

 I'm also looking for a more complete parts list. What are some things you guys have seen that might bring this project even more pizzazz? I've seen cool stuff on czs, short travel DA, RMR mounts, ~3# sa, ~8# doubles (less and still reliable?). I kinda don't want to learn later there's still stuff I don't have that i want, and I'm only getting spoiled rotten this once!

 

 considering color case hardening, fluting the barrel, and engraving too. I was budgeting 3-6k so.... ? 

Edited July 15, 2017 by CSLFiero

[ATLDave]

If you're going all-out on this gun, go ahead and re-work the trigger.  Consider whether you want to keep it DA/SA or make it SAO... the parts you buy for those two are quite different.  

[johnbu]

On 07/15/2017 at 6:24 PM, CSLFiero said:

 I'm also looking for a more complete parts list. What are some things you guys have seen that might bring this project even more pizzazz? I've seen cool stuff on czs, short travel DA, RMR mounts, ~3# sa, ~8# doubles (less and still reliable?). I kinda don't want to learn later there's still stuff I don't have that i want, and I'm only getting spoiled rotten this once!

 

You can get a reliable 2 1/2 SA and 6# DA, close to zero reset trigger with no creep or grit.

Call joe or joanna at Patriot Defense and get all their springs, one piece sear, bolo disconnector and titan hammer. Polish up the internals.

[TonyRumore]

I started with a standard large frame steel Witness and used a 45 ACP long slide and a 6" 40SW barrel (not coned). The reamer was made by PTG and I had them install an extended pilot on it, so it would be in the bore before the reamer started cutting the shoulder.  Once I had it chambered and head spaced, I made a small diameter guide rod so I could install a double recoil spring.  It came out to a bit over 30 pounds.  I use standard 45 ACP factory mags in it.  However, it can only handle about 6 rounds or they start to nose-over and feed too low.....a common problem with the 40 Super.  It's not an issue for me, since I only use it for hunting.

 

I later purchased a 45 ACP Hunter pistol and swapped the 40 Super barrel over to it.  Unfortunately, it's recoil rod is different than the standard Witness, so my 30 pound spring setup won't work in it.  I'm going to have to make a new guide rod for that gun as well.  I can also run my 6" 10mm barrel in the Hunter's 45 ACP slide, and it works fine in 10mm with a 10mm extractor installed.  Swapping back to 45, or 40 Super, I just leave the 10mm extractor is place since it works with both size rims.  

 

Velocity from the 6" barrel is as follows:

 

135gr Sierra 1820fps

150gr Sierra 1735fps

165gr Sierra 1675fps

180gr Sierra 1565fps

200gr XTP 1450fps

 

I have barrels/slides for this frame in 22LR, 9mm, 357 Sig, 38 Super, 40SW, 10mm, 40 Super, and 45 ACP.

 

Tony Rumore

Tromix

 

 

Edited July 17, 2017 by TonyRumore

[CSLFiero]

I just got off the phone  with Tony, and  it was like finding  El Dorado, except instead of gold there was 40 super knowledge. 

 

Johnbu (or anyone who wants to chime in), trigger was my next question.  how does the titan trigger compare to the egw prepped Henning trigger? I've seen titan given  lots of praise, and I haven't found the thread that compared directly.

 

update, barrel purchased. Opening the wallet for skinny guide rod and reamer tonight if they're "off the shelf" parts.

 

EDIT: I  noticed that Henning is set up for  for SA and titan is for da/sa, well that makes them more non-comparable. On to the next thing!

Edited July 18, 2017 by CSLFiero

[CSLFiero]

 the project has been sent off to Tony at Tromix for reaming

 

 right when it gets back, I'll not be test firing though, as I'll next need to thin out a guide rod so i can put on 35# of resistance. Racking the slide on these cz style pistols is hard enough, but I've heard the slides have failed in really hot 10mm, so i know 40 super will be pushing my luck on off the shelf springs.

 

 on a side note, I'm wondering what the order of operations  should be when doing custom finishes and engraving? I'm going to do major gun something first, but should engraving come before case hardening? I'm not sure if 1200 degree heat would warp and wreck it.. I'm thinking with color case hardening, you harden then engrave, but i could be wrong. case hardened steel might be a bear to engrave..

 

 right now, I'm thinking..

 

1) major smithing

2) case harden

3)engrave

4) polish, finish, and fit components

 

 

[SoCalShooter69]

On 7/17/2017 at 2:33 PM, CSLFiero said:

I just got off the phone  with Tony, and  it was like finding  El Dorado, except instead of gold there was 40 super knowledge. 

 

Johnbu (or anyone who wants to chime in), trigger was my next question.  how does the titan trigger compare to the egw prepped Henning trigger? I've seen titan given  lots of praise, and I haven't found the thread that compared directly.

 

update, barrel purchased. Opening the wallet for skinny guide rod and reamer tonight if they're "off the shelf" parts.

 

EDIT: I  noticed that Henning is set up for  for SA and titan is for da/sa, well that makes them more non-comparable. On to the next thing!

 

Incorrect. A titan with a bolo is the best SA trigger on the market currently. Yes, the titan has DA hooks, but it's unbeatable in SA with a bolo.

[johnbu]

A bolo disconnector in a stock 2 with titan hammer and Match single action trigger (pretravel screw removed)

 

 

[SoCalShooter69]

Here's a SAO tanfo, titan, bolo, w pretravel screw removed, but with the overtravel screw in. 

 

 

[CSLFiero]

Thanks for the vids, guys. I've resolved to send the whole package out to PD for the fitting and all the do dads, but first the other stuff has got to happen since fitment might change after a thorough 1400deg bake. But in other news, I've returned from a work assignment to find I now own perhaps only the second .40 super Tanfoglio Witness in the world. Check this out!

 

Great stuff from Tony at Tromix. The pistol makes me feel like I'm going on a power trip, I can't help but laugh a little. Villainous! Tony also does Saiga 12 stuff, which reminded me I had to welcome my new Stock III to the family.

Makes me want matching furniture for the VEPR and Tanfo.

 

Anyways, I'm still needing to find a gunsmith willing to do welding and milling on the Tanfo. I've already had some unfortunate rejections. MGW and Jim at Innovative Custom unfortunately had to pass. Waiting to hear back from J&L. Got my fingers crossed. I even sent a message off to CZC, even though it's a long shot. The list of stuff I'd like to do is really long, it would be a great sale (or maybe huge pain in the rear) for anyone with time and willingness. The list goes:

 

Hand fitting of the slide to frame

Welding up serrations and recutting a more unique texture (scales, waves, or something more creative)

Cutting off the trigger guard and welding in one more like a CZ in shape and serrating it

Milling for a rmr plate

Lightening milling

Barrel fluting (twist style, adjacent from the rifling)

Muzzle crowning

Threading the slide for a bushing? And the crowning the bushing if it’s doable

Thinning the guide rod and fitting 35# spring(s)

Cut the take down pin to frame length counter sink the frame for access

Slimming out the slide stop

Getting the absolute most from the under cuts at the beaver tail and trigger guard

Scallop the magwell outside for ripping out stuck mags

Rounding off the edges, and polishing

 

And I'm easily sold on other things I imagine. Anyone who knows someone, I'm all ears. Part of me hopes Tony offers to help again, I feel like he's on my wavelength when it comes to this project.

[Rasro]

Whatever became of this project?!?