9mm Lee FCD - Glock Bulge

[98sr20ve]

It exists so that you can adjust it so the crimp part of the die does not touch the case, and the sizing ring kisses the bottom 2.0 of the case where the Dillon die does not. Allows you to use the Dillon decapping/sizing die, the smoothest operating die out there, and still have all rounds chamber. You do not need the extra sizing done by the U-Die or the standard Lee Carbide Sizing die. The FCD sizes less than both-just what is needed-where it is needed. No twice sizing, no overworking the brass, less wear on your arm, and smoother operation of the press. Indeed, it is a blessing for those loading 9mm range brass for Barsto/KKM Glock barrels.

I have never once had any issues with my standard Lee sizing die. No primer follow ever, no "lack of smoothness", nothing. You can hardly call the Lee Sizing die "extras sizing" if you actually kinda "need" that sizing to get the brass to work. Reality is your Dillon die is not sizing enough and your adding a "extra" die to make up for it. Do it right the first time and you don't have to do things bass ackwards. For the record my Lee die has produced a a ton of ammo for a Lone Wolf Barrel and now a KKM barrel in my G34. I sold the Lone Wolf barrel to a friend who runs Dillon Dies and he had to have the chamber reemed to get his ammo to fit. I never, ever had issue with that barrel and my standard lee sizer. I now have a KKM barrel. Same story. Nothing fails the case gauge do to sizing issues. All you do is set the die up right (take the slack out of the toolhead but don't put a bind on it) and it works perfectly. Lee sizers are not doing "extra sizing" they are just sizing lower and doing it rigth the first time. Same with Hornady in my experiance.

[GForceLizard]

Sure sounds like when you use the Dillon and Lee dies this way you are sizing twice. The top part with the Dillon and the bottom with the Lee. I've always thought of sizing as the first step. For the people that think this works why wouldn't you put the sizers in positions 1 & 2?

[Yardbird]

Because the FCD is crimp die. It only sizes the bullet portion of the cartridge for me.

[Woody Allen]

I have never once had any issues with my standard Lee sizing die. No primer follow ever, no "lack of smoothness", nothing. You can hardly call the Lee Sizing die "extras sizing" if you actually kinda "need" that sizing to get the brass to work. Reality is your Dillon die is not sizing enough and your adding a "extra" die to make up for it. Do it right the first time and you don't have to do things bass ackwards. For the record my Lee die has produced a a ton of ammo for a Lone Wolf Barrel and now a KKM barrel in my G34. I sold the Lone Wolf barrel to a friend who runs Dillon Dies and he had to have the chamber reemed to get his ammo to fit. I never, ever had issue with that barrel and my standard lee sizer. I now have a KKM barrel. Same story. Nothing fails the case gauge do to sizing issues. All you do is set the die up right (take the slack out of the toolhead but don't put a bind on it) and it works perfectly. Lee sizers are not doing "extra sizing" they are just sizing lower and doing it rigth the first time. Same with Hornady in my experiance.

There are always those who claim the EGW Lee die and standard Lee die run as smoothly on a 650 as the Dillon. Yep.

Normally the next you hear is how caselube is not needed and the press runs the same without it. Gotta luv the internet.

[98sr20ve]

There are always those who claim the EGW Lee die and standard Lee die run as smoothly on a 650 as the Dillon. Yep.

Normally the next you hear is how caselube is not needed and the press runs the same without it. Gotta luv the internet.

Your right, I'm lying. Either way. It's not a contest to see whose press runs the smoothest. It's about making ammo that works. At least it is for me. My ammo works. With out the added complication/oversizing that the u-die might present, with out any fear that the FCD will size my big lead bullets, with out having the size a case twice. Thats all that matters to me.

[98sr20ve]

Because the FCD is crimp die. It only sizes the bullet portion of the cartridge for me.

It doesn't magically know what you bullet is or were it is. It's a sizing ring. If the bullet/case combo is bigger then you run the risk of your bullets getting sized. It's not that complicated to measure it out if you want I can walk you through it.

[Yardbird]

Must be thinking of .40 and 10s then.

[98sr20ve]

Must be thinking of .40 and 10s then.

Take your dial calipers and measure them. 10mm has a good potential (not 100%) of sizing your bullets. 9mm is less so because of the taper. Be sure to measure deep with the 9mm die. 10mm/40 is straight so it's easier to measure. Compare the I.D. of the FCD to the O.D. of your loaded ammo. The sizing ring is on the very bottom of the die so it has to go past the bullet to get to the base of the case. No other way for it to work.

[G-ManBart]

Update. I was upstairs and heard a ruckus in the basement. I went downstairs and found the Lee FCD on my laptop watching inappropriate material while drinking my beer and smoking my cigars. My dog was cowering and then walked bowlegged up the stairs.

DO NOT let this device into your home!!!

See, now THAT's why I keep mine locked in the garage!

Edited April 13, 2010 by G-ManBart

[GrumpyOne]

Update. I was upstairs and heard a ruckus in the basement. I went downstairs and found the Lee FCD on my laptop watching inappropriate material while drinking my beer and smoking my cigars. My dog was cowering and then walked bowlegged up the stairs.

DO NOT let this device into your home!!!

See, now THAT's why I keep mine locked in the garage!

Even so Bart, you better start checking your brake lines and gas tank for leaks and bombs if that thing is a bad as he says it is!

[Woody Allen]

There are always those who claim the EGW Lee die and standard Lee die run as smoothly on a 650 as the Dillon. Yep.

Normally the next you hear is how caselube is not needed and the press runs the same without it. Gotta luv the internet.

Your right, I'm lying. Either way. It's not a contest to see whose press runs the smoothest. It's about making ammo that works. At least it is for me. My ammo works. With out the added complication/oversizing that the u-die might present, with out any fear that the FCD will size my big lead bullets, with out having the size a case twice. Thats all that matters to me.

How smooth the press runs is something many others value. I do. Making good ammo and having the press run as smooth as possible is what I desire. My ammo works and my press runs smoother than yours with no downsides, none. I overcame my fear of the FCD (it was scary at first)as I am sure others will after reading this thread.

Edited April 14, 2010 by Woody Allen

[98sr20ve]

There are always those who claim the EGW Lee die and standard Lee die run as smoothly on a 650 as the Dillon. Yep.

Normally the next you hear is how caselube is not needed and the press runs the same without it. Gotta luv the internet.

Your right, I'm lying. Either way. It's not a contest to see whose press runs the smoothest. It's about making ammo that works. At least it is for me. My ammo works. With out the added complication/oversizing that the u-die might present, with out any fear that the FCD will size my big lead bullets, with out having the size a case twice. Thats all that matters to me.

How smooth the press runs is something many others value. I do. Making good ammo and having the press run as smooth as possible is what I desire. My ammo works and my press runs smoother than yours with no downsides, none. I overcame my fear of the FCD (it was scary at first)as I am sure others will after reading this thread.

I notice zero difference between the Standard Lee Die and the Hornady Die. Have you ever even used a normal Lee sizing die? I have felt other presses with Dillon and other dies. Never noticed a difference. Never put a Dillon on my press. Why bother.

[G-ManBart]

If the press has an extra station you can also run a Dillon resizing die in station #1, a Lee resizing die (no decapping pin) in #2 and the press will run smooth, fast and require minimal extra (if any) effort. R,

[Woody Allen]

I notice zero difference between the Standard Lee Die and the Hornady Die. Have you ever even used a normal Lee sizing die? I have felt other presses with Dillon and other dies. Never noticed a difference. Never put a Dillon on my press. Why bother.

I have the Dillon, Lee, EGW Lee and the Hornady and have used them all. There is quite a difference in the ease of running the press between the Dillon and the rest.

Very noticable both in effort and ease of the case inserting in the die.

The Hornady seems to feed the cases better than the Lee, but the effort is about the same. The EGW is the worst as far as effort to run the press. The 650 with the Dillon makes the press run like butttttter (using One Shot), but it doesn't size down enough (unlike the others).

No need for anything but Dillon dies if not for the Grock barrel messing up the 9mm brass. Ajusting the Dillon correctly will lead to about 20% that will stick in the chamber of a KKM. If I started with new brass and just reloaded it, straight Dillon dies would be all I would use.

Edited April 14, 2010 by Woody Allen

[Woody Allen]

If the press has an extra station you can also run a Dillon resizing die in station #1, a Lee resizing die (no decapping pin) in #2 and the press will run smooth, fast and require minimal extra (if any) effort. R,

You are then resizing the brass twice and you loose your powder check. The Lee die sizes the brass down more than the Dillon, more than is needed. I like my powder check die.

If the 650 had an extra station, that is what I probably would do, but I may use the Hornady die without a decapping pin instead of the Lee.

[LPatterson]

I love all the back and forth - my press operates smoother and softer than your press. In the military we called that a pissing contest and who really cares. Personally I resize all my brass in a RCBS Rock Chucker with a Lee U die and it goes through the Dillon like $hit through a Goose. Do I do a lot more work than other people, probably but it is my time and my life and I am past the time where other peoples methods really matter.

[Woody Allen]

I love all the back and forth - my press operates smoother and softer than your press. In the military we called that a pissing contest and who really cares. Personally I resize all my brass in a RCBS Rock Chucker with a Lee U die and it goes through the Dillon like $hit through a Goose. Do I do a lot more work than other people, probably but it is my time and my life and I am past the time where other peoples methods really matter.

Sharing of information on what works for those who are dealing with the Grocked brass issue. Trying to figure out what works and what doesn't. Unlike you, other peoples methods do matter to me if I can improve what I am doing.

It appears to have brought out the FCD is evil, the who cares, and the I don't have a 650 Dillon press/Dillon Die/FCD die, and those who don't use Grocked brass in a tight chambered barrel. Posters who give their opinion on something they have no experience with anything that is discussed.

Which are you??? Oh, you just told us-the who cares crowd and you post to let us know that. Thanks so much. I am done with this thread as I gleaned as much as possible from it.

[98sr20ve]

I get confused a lot it seems. Somehow my Lee Sizing Die makes my press run poorly but the FCD does not. But when I size a unsized case with my FCD and also with my Lee Sizing die they feel practically the same. Somehow this Lee Sizing die sucks and the FCD is the next best things to sliced bread. I guess I just don't understand that running two sizing dies is less effort on the handle then running 1 sizing die.

I agree with LPatterson. This is stupid beyond words at this point.

[Woody Allen]

I get confused a lot it seems. Somehow my Lee Sizing Die makes my press run poorly but the FCD does not. But when I size a unsized case with my FCD and also with my Lee Sizing die they feel practically the same. Somehow this Lee Sizing die sucks and the FCD is the next best things to sliced bread. I guess I just don't understand that running two sizing dies is less effort on the handle then running 1 sizing die.

I agree with LPatterson. This is stupid beyond words at this point.

Thanks Steve. Your input was well thought out and very insightful as was Mr. Leroy "I don't care but I will comment anyway and tell you so." Especially the part were you stated you don't even own a Dillon die. I can't read this thread again as my IQ seems to drop 10 points every time I do, even more if I read your posts more than once. You win, your right, now go away.

[98sr20ve]

I get confused a lot it seems. Somehow my Lee Sizing Die makes my press run poorly but the FCD does not. But when I size a unsized case with my FCD and also with my Lee Sizing die they feel practically the same. Somehow this Lee Sizing die sucks and the FCD is the next best things to sliced bread. I guess I just don't understand that running two sizing dies is less effort on the handle then running 1 sizing die.

I agree with LPatterson. This is stupid beyond words at this point.

Thanks Steve. Your input was well thought out and very insightful as was Mr. Leroy "I don't care but I will comment anyway and tell you so." Especially the part were you stated you don't even own a Dillon die. I can't read this thread again as my IQ seems to drop 10 points every time I do, even more if I read your posts more than once. You win, your right, now go away.

Point was my FCD and Lee Sizer feel practically the same sizing a fired/unsized case. Somehow that makes my Lee Sizer a POS and the FCD something awesome. I just don't get it.

[Woody Allen]

I get confused a lot it seems. Somehow my Lee Sizing Die makes my press run poorly but the FCD does not. But when I size a unsized case with my FCD and also with my Lee Sizing die they feel practically the same. Somehow this Lee Sizing die sucks and the FCD is the next best things to sliced bread. I guess I just don't understand that running two sizing dies is less effort on the handle then running 1 sizing die.

I agree with LPatterson. This is stupid beyond words at this point.

Thanks Steve. Your input was well thought out and very insightful as was Mr. Leroy "I don't care but I will comment anyway and tell you so." Especially the part were you stated you don't even own a Dillon die. I can't read this thread again as my IQ seems to drop 10 points every time I do, even more if I read your posts more than once. You win, your right, now go away.

Point was my FCD and Lee Sizer feel practically the same sizing a fired/unsized case. Somehow that makes my Lee Sizer a POS and the FCD something awesome. I just don't get it.

Jeez, Steve...No, no, no. I have the die. I have used it. I am not trying to demean the Lee die or you or your opinions. The Dillon does LESS than the Lee, but you pay a price. The case inserts easier in the Dillon and less effort to size the case than the Lee. Why, because it does LESS. It does. No question. I want a solution that allows me to use the Dillon die, keep my powder check, and allow the cases to chamber.

You get your 650 with the Dillon dies, and use Grocked brass, and find that 20% stick in the chamber in your KKM barrel. I'll walk you through my journey:

You live with it-the 20% you use for practice rounds.

You buy an EGW Lee die and get pissed off at the extra effort it take to operate the press, and the crushed cases.

You get the Lee die and it solves the problem but it just does not work as well as the Dillon. Again, makes sense, the Dillon does less. The bevel is less forgiving, more crushed cases, and more effort-it does more than the Dillon.

You get the Hornady die. Well made. A little better than the Lee but still you been spoiled by the Dillon-which does LESS than both.

You do not want to give up a station and lose the powder check and put the Lee, EGW or Hornady in station 2.

You look for a solution and find none. You are spoiled by the Dillon die-which does LESS, not enough. Not a big deal, the Lee works well, as does the Hornady as does the EGW, but you want the press to operate with the Dillon, less effort. Again, makes sense the Dillon does less-does not enough.

You read about someone using the FCD adjusted just so the carbide ring kisses the bottom 2.0 of the case curing what the Dillon does not. You load thousands of rounds, hey works great. You test with calipers to see what is happening the case. Why didn't I do this before, I used the FCD five years ago. It was sitting in the scrap bin

You post on the Enos forum. Hey, it makes sense. What do you think. Anyone else trying this.

I have all the dies, used all of them for many many thousands of rounds, a multi-year journey.

USPSA shooters are tweakers. We love to mess with everything.

You post on the Enos forum knowing the FCD has a nasty rep-mainly because it is easy to over adjust and really mess up the rounds.

You wait for the incoming.....and it comes in spades.

This is a technical forum, we dissect and question everything. No status quo. We make the status quo.

[98sr20ve]

I would have to search elsewhere because the FCD sizes my bullets. Interesting both the Lee and Hornady hang up in your press. My lee seldom hung up when I had a casefeeder on my 550 and now that I don't I would say never. The 550 has a much harder to adjust slider then the 650 and I blame it's double strike of the case as the problem not the die. Glad it works for you but people need to make sure it doesn't size their bullets in their chosen bullet/case combo. Passing that test no reason not to use it.

[ronhonda]

So I have read all the posts and I am lost. So can someone in very simple terms explain what is going on?

I have a 650 currently running with EGW U die, dillon powder die,redding comp die, dillon crimp die, and a lee FCD.

What can I do to ensure I remove the glock bulge from the brass and still have the press operate smoothly. Right now it's kind of herky-jerky.

Also I run the same setup for 9 major and 40s&w.

Comments?

[98sr20ve]

So I have read all the posts and I am lost. So can someone in very simple terms explain what is going on?

I have a 650 currently running with EGW U die, dillon powder die,redding comp die, dillon crimp die, and a lee FCD.

What can I do to ensure I remove the glock bulge from the brass and still have the press operate smoothly. Right now it's kind of herky-jerky.

Also I run the same setup for 9 major and 40s&w.

Comments?

It's all very subjective and operator dependent. But basically using some big generalizations that people ofter argue about.

1) Bulge is often not going to be removed properly with a Dillon Sizer.

- So you need to use another sizer, Either a Lee U-Die or a standard Lee Sizer.

- Or you can use a FCD. Some people say it sizes bullets. Others say it doesn't. I know for a fact my MG 124gr bullets drop in and out of the die with out touching the sizer. I know for a fact my 155gr lead bullets don't even make it 1/2 way in the die before they hit the sizing ring hard.

2) EGW-U die is a .001 smaller then the standard Lee die. It's makes the press run harder.

3) WoodyAllen claims even the standard Lee die makes the press run harder. It does not have the flare the Dillon die has so it can cause the case to hit the edge of the die. It's the same profile as the U-Die so if it's not a issue with your U-Die then it wont be a issue with the normal Lee die either.

4) It's all about how to remove the bulge. Choices...

- FCD

- U-Die

- Normal Lee/hornady/other die with out the big taper

Persoanlly I don't have any issues with the 9mm brass I use. I get police fired brass all the time. I size it with my standard Lee sizing die, and I fire it in my KKM barrel with zero issues. My sizer is set to lift the toolhead and take most the slack out (but leave a smidge in) between the toolhead and shellplate. So not binding but more importantly not as loose as Lee/Dillon would tell you to do it.

Be prepared for people to argue nearly every point listed above. People have widely varying views on this thing.

Edited April 20, 2010 by 98sr20ve

[Woody Allen]

So I have read all the posts and I am lost. So can someone in very simple terms explain what is going on?

I have a 650 currently running with EGW U die, dillon powder die,redding comp die, dillon crimp die, and a lee FCD.

What can I do to ensure I remove the glock bulge from the brass and still have the press operate smoothly. Right now it's kind of herky-jerky.

Also I run the same setup for 9 major and 40s&w.

Comments?

It's all very subjective and operator dependent. But basically using some big generalizations that people ofter argue about.

1) Bulge is often not going to be removed properly with a Dillon Sizer.

- So you need to use another sizer, Either a Lee U-Die or a standard Lee Sizer.

- Or you can use a FCD. Some people say it sizes bullets. Others say it doesn't. I know for a fact my MG 124gr bullets drop in and out of the die with out touching the sizer. I know for a fact my 155gr lead bullets don't even make it 1/2 way in the die before they hit the sizing ring hard.

2) EGW-U die is a .001 smaller then the standard Lee die. It's makes the press run harder.

3) WoodyAllen claims even the standard Lee die makes the press run harder. It does not have the flare the Dillon die has so it can cause the case to hit the edge of the die. It's the same profile as the U-Die so if it's not a issue with your U-Die then it wont be a issue with the normal Lee die either.

4) It's all about how to remove the bulge. Choices...

- FCD

- U-Die

- Normal Lee/hornady/other die with out the big taper

Persoanlly I don't have any issues with the 9mm brass I use. I get police fired brass all the time. I size it with my standard Lee sizing die, and I fire it in my KKM barrel with zero issues. My sizer is set to lift the toolhead and take most the slack out (but leave a smidge in) between the toolhead and shellplate. So not binding but more importantly not as loose as Lee/Dillon would tell you to do it.

Be prepared for people to argue nearly every point listed above. People have widely varying views on this thing.

I agree with 98sr20ve. In my opinion based on actual use, I would rank the "solutions" as follows with respect to ease of operation of the press (worst to best) (assuming you want to keep the powder check die in a 650):

First stage EGW U-die.

First stage Lee Die.

First stage Hornady Die (nearly equal with the Lee Die).

First stage Dillon Die, with the FCD as the last die.

All Dillon Dies and assume 20% rejects to be used for practice rounds (KKM barrel).

All Dillon Dies using new brass or brass that has only been fired out of your KKM since new.

Get rid of the plastic toy gun and buy an Edge.

Edited April 21, 2010 by Woody Allen