ben b. Posted January 15, 2010 Share Posted January 15, 2010 I know they wanted to have a flash light stage but this seems a little much. Like I said its a freaking cool idea but there is just no way to have the stage like that and still use the flash light with the SO being able to keep track of the shooter. What is the concern or problem that you see? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Koski Posted January 15, 2010 Share Posted January 15, 2010 Ben - For most shooters there would be no problem. But if someone dropped a gun, had a serious malfunction and was pointing the gun all over the place, etc, it would be nice to see what was going on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steel1212 Posted January 15, 2010 Author Share Posted January 15, 2010 I know they wanted to have a flash light stage but this seems a little much. Like I said its a freaking cool idea but there is just no way to have the stage like that and still use the flash light with the SO being able to keep track of the shooter. What is the concern or problem that you see? What Steve just said. The SO is there to keep the shooter AND everybody else safe. If the SO can't see the shooter they can't do their job. I mean what if the person shooting was left handed whipped their gun around to do the reload had a AD, right where the SO was standing in those videos? It just doesn't give me a warm fuzzy feeling on that stage. Like I said before the stage looks like fun I just don't think its a very safe way to do it and I can't think of a safe way to do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben b. Posted January 15, 2010 Share Posted January 15, 2010 You might be interested (or horrified) to learn that at 2009 Nat'ls it was a hot range in the bays, but not outside of the bays. After the each stage walk thru in a bay, we lined up as a group, L&MR, and holstered. Stayed that way until it was your turn up. I think after the first stage in that bay, we L&MR for the 2nd stage in that bay, holstered, and waited then, also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steel1212 Posted January 15, 2010 Author Share Posted January 15, 2010 You might be interested (or horrified) to learn that at 2009 Nat'ls it was a hot range in the bays, but not outside of the bays. After the each stage walk thru in a bay, we lined up as a group, L&MR, and holstered. Stayed that way until it was your turn up. I think after the first stage in that bay, we L&MR for the 2nd stage in that bay, holstered, and waited then, also. I'm not a fan of hot ranges in competition but at least those people are visible. Inside that cave your not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Keen Posted January 15, 2010 Share Posted January 15, 2010 I know they wanted to have a flash light stage but this seems a little much. Like I said its a freaking cool idea but there is just no way to have the stage like that and still use the flash light with the SO being able to keep track of the shooter. What is the concern or problem that you see? What Steve just said. The SO is there to keep the shooter AND everybody else safe. If the SO can't see the shooter they can't do their job. I mean what if the person shooting was left handed whipped their gun around to do the reload had a AD, right where the SO was standing in those videos? It just doesn't give me a warm fuzzy feeling on that stage. Like I said before the stage looks like fun I just don't think its a very safe way to do it and I can't think of a safe way to do it. Why not have the mouth of the "tunnel hood" open, but extended (think of a camping-tent rain fly) and have the shooter start in a standing or kneeling position, gun loaded and holstered ...... flashlight in hand or whatever. Then at the start signal, the shooter would have to duck into the tunnel opening (hood), going prone, and be mostly in the dark ... but the RO can still keep an eye on the shooter/gun from the entrance on the tunnel hood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben b. Posted January 15, 2010 Share Posted January 15, 2010 The left fork of the Y was straight down range. The right fork went into the berm. The shooter was facing the approximate corner of the berm, which IIRC was about 165*s from the other stage. 180 breaks (actually means greater than 90* from downrange) can not reeally be stopped, only observed and THEN stopped. Whether 180 violations occur in a pipe I don't know, they certainly can, but there was no lateral movement or sideways targets and 90* to ether side was a pipe wall, the muzzle would need to be well back from that to cover anyone. The SO was in the typical position, about 3 feet or more to the back right. The peanut gallery was considerably further in distance and angle. I know how safety discussions go, and the gist is that you can never be too safe, especially if a central tenet of the dogma is not followed. I did not and still don't see anything to get my personal panties twisted about in safety on this stage, at IDPA Nat'ls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Koski Posted January 15, 2010 Share Posted January 15, 2010 (edited) Sounds like the bay setup was very well. Yes, safety can be a never ending argument. We'd all be safer if we stayed home. I'll gladly defer to the MD. Edited January 16, 2010 by Steve Koski Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steel1212 Posted January 16, 2010 Author Share Posted January 16, 2010 Don't get me wrong I'm not saying anything was UNSAFE really, just that if something unsafe happened no body would know about it until it was to late. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Koski Posted January 16, 2010 Share Posted January 16, 2010 Ben - I've yelled "muzzle" at a few shooters as they approached the muzzle safe points and they quickly corrected. I think sometimes a cone/180° violation can be avoided with some help from the SO, other times they can't as you noted. It happens fast and there's no time to warn/adjust. It's just over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben b. Posted January 16, 2010 Share Posted January 16, 2010 Is that what they always shout at me? I thought they were shouting "Nuzzle", and I holster and start hugging and nosing their ears. This explains a lot of misunderstandings.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Koski Posted January 16, 2010 Share Posted January 16, 2010 Is that what they always shout at me? I thought they were shouting "Nuzzle", and I holster and start hugging and nosing their ears. This explains a lot of misunderstandings.... Does your wife SO you a lot? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben b. Posted January 16, 2010 Share Posted January 16, 2010 Is that what they always shout at me? I thought they were shouting "Nuzzle", and I holster and start hugging and nosing their ears. This explains a lot of misunderstandings.... Does your wife SO you a lot? Steve-oDepends what you mean by "S.O.". Not so much, anymore. Marriage, you know... Or did you mean my Prison Wife? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben b. Posted January 16, 2010 Share Posted January 16, 2010 Yuk yuk yuk, hardy har har. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Koski Posted January 16, 2010 Share Posted January 16, 2010 Don't want to hear about any prison wives. TMI!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
got glock Posted January 22, 2010 Share Posted January 22, 2010 I shot this stage. It was fun......until you figure out the guy in front of you is shooting some smoky lead loads. All in all fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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