Rule Question on Backup Pistol

[Lumpy McSoo]

Hello,

According to the IDPA Rulebook (posted below) a shooter may use another pistol of the same type, action, and caliber. What does "type" mean? Manufacturer?

The reason why I am asking is I am currently using a M&P 45 for CDP. I only have one M&P 45 and if it breaks at a sanctioned match could I use my Glock 21 as a backup? In my mind, they are the same type, action, and caliber. ALso, this rule seems "bad"for CDP. Why not let anyone use a backup that fits into the category? I would think I would be able to use my Wilson CQB in CDP if my M&P 45 breaks but not according to the rule below.

Well, main question is, can I back up my M&P 45 with my Glock 21, at a sanctioned match?

Thanks, Lumpy.

C 12. In any single contest, a shooter must use the same pistol in all stages of the contest. If the pistol he started with becomes unserviceable during the contest, he may use another pistol of the same type, action, and caliber. Such a shooter may resume the contest at the next scheduled “start signal”, but previous stages may not be re-shot. For example if a shooter starts with a Glock 34 and the gun breaks, the shooter may finish with another Glock 34, a Glock 17, a Glock 19 or a Glock 26. (All of these are 9mm and of the same action and type.)

[Steve Koski]

I would certainly rule Yes in your case, and I'll bet all MD's would rule the same way.

Koski

[Flexmoney]

I would certainly rule Yes in your case, and I'll bet all MD's would rule the same way.

Koski

It's out of my lane, but...

+1

[lugnut]

I certainly wouldn't have an issue with it as a MD.. but it's always best to check with your attorney... I mean MD.

[Chris Christian]

Koski is likely (and correctly) speaking for 99.99% of all MDs at the club match level. At a sanctioned match things may be different, although I doubt even the most hardline MD would see a shooter gain any "competitive advantage" by making the shift between M&P and Glock. But, at a sanctioned match there are some MDs who are sticklers for the precise wording of the Rule Book.... and I can understand their position under those circumstances.

Chris Christian

[mikegot38]

As I recall, I was told at IDPA Nationals in Allentown the they are more concerned with the "Competitive Advantage" issue. The specific example that was used is a competitor using fiber optic sights outside and then conveniently having the gun break and switching to his backup (which has tritium sights) to shoot the indoor stages. Best to ask the Match Director prior to registering for any sanctioned match

[Chris Christian]

Mike is right. I was at the Nats in Allentown 2007/08, and that scenario was discussed. I'm not certain how it would have actually worked out in real life. If a pistol goes down during a COF it's a stage killer for the shooter. If the shooter can't finish the stage with the pistol there is a scoring system that scores them on that stage, and it's not nearly as generous as finishing the stage with a functioning gun... and they don't get a re-shoot for a broken gun in a sanctioned match. In order to gain any competitive advantage from a gun shift the pistol would have to break on the last round fired on that stage (to get the full stage score), and be demonstrably broken (in the opinion of the SO) so that it could be excused from the next stage and the shift made to a back up. That may be within the technical abilities of the real "gamers", but it's not easy. If the shooter merely says his gun "conveniently broke while he was holding it in his hand" while he was moving between stages, it's not likely to fly with most of the SO/MDs I know. My procedure would be to talk to the SOs at the last stage the competitor fired, and if the shooter finished the stage with his starting gun... and those SOs said it worked... I'd make him start the next stage with it... and let the shooter figure things out.

Chris Christian

[Steve Koski]

Mike & Chris - Interesting. I had never thought of breaking my gun at the perfect time, but I'll bet someone has!

Even at local matches (around here) there are no reshoots for broken guns. You get your actual score (time to last shot + points down + FTNs) or 3 seconds per round required on the stage, whichever is better.

Koski

[Lumpy McSoo]

Thanks for the asnwers everyone.

I pretty much would think that any match director would allow a Glock 21 to replace a broken down M&P 45. I'll hopefully never need to find out but until I get another M&P 45 or a 45c, I'll be taking the Glock along as a backup. Sounds funny saying that having 6 Glocks and only one M&P so far. Looking forward to getting more M&Ps and also to the Gen 4 Glocks.

I would just hate to have traveled any distance and have my primary gun break down with no back up gun available. At least this way, it would come down to the match director. Actually, I'll e-mail the match director for the shoot the end of February that I am concerned about and ask them this very question.

Thanks, Later, Lumpy.