38 spl to make PF in IDPA

[RAC]

I've heard that about 231- what did you need to bump it up to and how cold was it?

I was forced in to it and I do not recomend it but it was <40 degrees and I had to go to 5.6 grains

The power factor was not consistant it bounced between 125,000 and 130,000

Overall I liked using 231 but with the temperature problem I'll have to look elsewhere ,This next season I will be trying VV, Tight Group and some other powders depending on what I can find as being most available.

RC

[Cherryriver]

231 has another potential fault for revolver users- unburned flakes (or balls) stuck under the extractor. Bad news on fast reloads when you can't close the gun.

VV320 has yet to stick a star on me after fifteen or twenty thousand revolver rounds, so it's my preference.

I'll note that not everyone reports this problem with 231.

While Titegroup has its adherents, I dislike the way it heats up the gun; I've been told it's heavy on the nitro and so runs hot.

Maybe if I shot less...

[RAC]

231 has another potential fault for revolver users- unburned flakes (or balls) stuck under the extractor. Bad news on fast reloads when you can't close the gun.

VV320 has yet to stick a star on me after fifteen or twenty thousand revolver rounds, so it's my preference.

I'll note that not everyone reports this problem with 231.

While Titegroup has its adherents, I dislike the way it heats up the gun; I've been told it's heavy on the nitro and so runs hot.

Maybe if I shot less...

I never had any unburned flake problems with W 231 I was lucky or I was running it hot enough that it never was a problem

What load and bullet are you using with V V 320?

Have you tried any of the other V V powders?

I was not able to get any of the V V 320 so I ended up with some V V 340 to try

Edited January 3, 2010 by RAC

[Cherryriver]

Berry's 158gr roundnoses; 4.7gr VV320 for full power (900+fps), 4.5gr for a little less stress. I haven't chronoed the 4.5 lately.

340 is excellent too, but for heavier bullets and mid-range .357 loads, in my book. A few years ago I threw together 300 rounds with the old National Bullet lead 200s and some 340 that made major effortlessly- heavier bullets always make it easier to clear power factor- and were sensationally accurate and pleasant to shoot in my '55 Official Police.

I ordered a 200gr custom bullet mold just to replicate this load but haven't been casting since the nine-month wait for the mold ended last autumn.

To folks working to make factor, lighter bullets aren't helpful, as the "power factor" equation favors weight over the old "energy" method, which favored velocity.

Another kink you may run into in the IDPA chrono thing is that apparently, they use their own stock gun to chrono your loads; they did at a state match I went to a few years ago in Wisconsin. The four-incher they used belied how little attention IDPA paid to SSR- the tester was a clapped-out, peeling-nickel Model 10 that looked useless for anything more than a fight in a broom closet.

When I got dinged for missing power factor, my match gun, a '59 Colt .357 Model was tried and the velocity was 60+fps better.

Another coincidence- that was the very last round I ever fired using Titegroup. I was just experimenting with it that summer and the loads were book-max and still had trouble making the floor.

The remnant of that canister is still on the shelf.

Now, another powder that is a heritage type is Unique. In the olden days, five grains behind a lead 158 was considered hot but okay, and lots of us used it by the zillions.

I still do when I can't find 320, and with 4.5gr behind a lead bullet and 4.7gr behind a plated one, it makes 125 easily. The "new" Unique hasn't given as much trouble with unburned flakes, either, so I'm still happy with it even after all these decades. I have an Alliant data sheet from about 2002 showing the 4.5gr load as "+P", and one from the '70s showing a higher charge without a +P designation, so that's an example of how things change.

The 4.5gr/lead one chronoed about 830-850 a couple of months back on a cool November day.

I still prefer 320 for cleanliness, but Unique's cheap and everywhere, and works in almost everything. Lots of old guys used to think it the perfect .38 Special powder, aside from wadcutters. It still could be.

[michaelhk]

Barrel length is 4.2, should I invest in +P brass? I read where they are thicker cases. Thanks Mike

[Chris Christian]

If you are looking to make the 125 PF for IDPA SSR I don't see, nor have I found, the need to go to +P brass. It won't hurt, but I see no benefit. I would, however, avoid Winchester or Remington nickle plated brass. I have yet to have either of those cases make it past the third resizing without the case side spliting. Brass brass (of any headstamp) has a much longer lifespan. Another factor to consider when being chroned is to use the same headstamp brass.

Different head stamps seem to have different internal volumes and I have gotten 60+ fps difference with same bullet & charge in different head stamp cases, and from the same chamber in the cylinder. Also, chrono each chamber on your cylinder. Some will be faster than others. Use those to chrono at matches.

Chris Christian

[RePete]

No such thing as +P brass.

The +P marking on the head is only for ammo identification. It just lets you know that the ammo is +P or a standard loading.

[Chris Christian]

Starline offers .38 Spl brass and .38 Spl +P brass. I haven't used either so I can't comment on case construction. But, that may be what the OP was referring to regarding +P brass.

Chris Christian

[jakeb]

What do you all think of the 180gr Rim Rock Cast Lead FP?

[RAC]

What do you all think of the 180gr Rim Rock Cast Lead FP?

It would prob make power factor pretty easy, but I prefer a round nose for easier reloads on the clock

RC

[jmorris]

This load is only for a .357 but uses 38spl brass

Note: only shoot this load from a .357

4.5g Clays

158g Berry's

OAL 1.525

Winchester small pistol

Velocity 865fps

I have tried 231, VVN310&N320, bullseye, HS-6, Titegroup and a bunch of others I can't remember off the top of my head and the load above felt the best.

[Tom E]

I shoot Precision's 147 FP sized .358 in my 4" 627. My chrono data shows 4.5 - 4.6 gr Solo 1000 @ 1.410 oal should make PF in 38 spec brass. For USPSA I shoot brass shortentened to .900", same 147 FP, 1.200 oal, 3.9 gr Solo 1000 for a 130 PF. My 2 1/2" 66 digests the same ammo just fine but I don't have chrono data for it. All the usual disclaimers.