New reticle in a 1-4x24 scope

[00bullitt]

So you could use something like this assuming it were daylight illuminated?

Yes....its usable but still a little more cluttered than I like. It could still be simpler for our/CQB uses.

But daytime illumination is a must have.

[kgunz11]

OK what about that would you like removed?

[00bullitt]

I like that stadia tree alot. I'd like a 2moa dot for a center aiming point that is not intersected by a horizontal line that would illuminate in daylight. Lose the vertical line below the tree. And take the thick parts on the horizontal line further to the outside of the reticle.

Or take that stadia tree and place it below the dot in the new Vortec reticle in the OP.

[kgunz11]

Tod, I think moving the thick lines further out takes away from the ability to use it for bracketing or "centering the target at the shoulders" etc. The center is a 200 yard zero.

[kgunz11]

Oops, you said NOT intersected.

[00bullitt]

Oops, you said NOT intersected.

I dont need to bracket a target. I just need to place the dot on it and know that the scope is horizontal to the target. Remove the vertical line above the dot too. Thats lookin better though. The key is how bright the dot can be in the daylight. It needs to be Aimpoint bright.

[kgunz11]

The part above the dot is the 100 yard zero. It's quite possible I could get a reticle like the one we have above... sorta. I could probably get NF to put some serious illumination in the center in the form of a dot that would be daylight visible, but I could not get everything else your asking for. The reticle would cut through the dot, and everything else would be the same as the last pic posted. It's still going to be a $1200 scope and how many people really want to spend that kind of money?

[00bullitt]

I won't buy anything until something more useful than my Swaro Z6 comes out. I also prefer 6x too on the top end. I really do like the stadia tree of your new reticle though.

[bigbrowndog]

its really pretty simple, take a german #4 reticle illuminate it with a 2 moa dot, have small but distinguishable marks below center every 4moa, no more than 4 marks and no fewer than 3, that allows for 16 to 20moa of bullt drop and is useable for pretty much everyone because holding half measure would be fairly easy to do.

Have the large stadia of the horizontal reticle open for at least 12moa, and make the 2moa dot in the center daylight illuminated.

If you don't like the German #4 reticle then just make it a plain duplex without the above horizontal bar.

For me pretty much the Trijicon #4 reticle with extra aiming marks below center, leave out any wind crap, BDC crap, ranging crap, and any other crappity crap, because then it simply becomes CRAPTACULAR!!!!!

Trapr

[kgunz11]

It's not MY reticle, it's the NF Velocity reticle. One of 3 new ones they have designed with MV range specific BDC subtents.

[00bullitt]

It's not MY reticle, it's the NF Velocity reticle. One of 3 new ones they have designed with MV range specific BDC subtents.

Its decent. could be used for CQB/3 gun but still not ideal.

Trapr.....yours sounds good.

[bigbrowndog]

The NF, CQB reticle with a few 4moa, marks below center should be nice, currently its good but not enough useful below center marks. I can't remember the actual name of the reticle, but its 2 horiz. stadia with a circle dot and a single mark below center.

If they could take the basic concept of the npr2 and shorten it a bit, then shorten the horizontal stadia as well but without the windage marks, remove the above center stadia, and put a 2moa dot on it, I would be tempted to buy it.

Trapr

[kgunz11]

Ya see, that's just it. you can't be tempted to buy it, you HAVE to buy it and a bunch of other folks too. You have to convince them it's going to sell to a large market. That's not something I feel comfortable representing to them because I don't believe people will buy them. 3G isn't the biggest market to spend $30k in to have to try and recoup for someone like NF, but I have other folks wanting to get their feet wet.

[bigbrowndog]

The reticle I like,....... its the NEED for a $1000.00+ optic that I don't, at least not for this sport. I do however NEED a 2.5x10 which I have a 1/2 price certificate for

Trapr

[00bullitt]

Ya see, that's just it. you can't be tempted to buy it, you HAVE to buy it and a bunch of other folks too. You have to convince them it's going to sell to a large market. That's not something I feel comfortable representing to them because I don't believe people will buy them. 3G isn't the biggest market to spend $30k in to have to try and recoup for someone like NF, but I have other folks wanting to get their feet wet.

Yeah.....but what works in 3gun....works for LE/MIL as well. NF will remain behind the curve in the low power optic category. Thats their choice.

When it comes to optics that work for me.....I'll buy them.....regardless of cost.....if and when they come out.

Right now....I can't find anything to beat the Z6.

[TMC]

I shoot the older Accupoint with the red triangle and it works pretty well for me. I really like the broken circle in the original post, that would be good for all the close stuff fast stuff, a big bright circle, preferrable fiber optic illumiated. I've looked at/shot the Meopta and the illuminated dot is too small for me to shoot fast at the close stuff. From there I would like to see a T shaped cross hair with 10mph hold off and marks for 300 and 400. With a 200 zero anything else seems too busy and too much for 3 gun.

Ideally I'd like 1-4 or better a 1-6 with an AGOC TA-11 Chevron Reticle and I've been told something close is coming.

[kgunz11]

You think NF is behind the curve because they don't have daylight illumination?

The LE world likes their Eotech optics. The Mil world likes their Acog. Everybody seems to be happy except a few in the 3G world.

[00bullitt]

You think NF is behind the curve because they don't have daylight illumination?

The LE world likes their Eotech optics. The Mil world likes their Acog. Everybody seems to be happy except a few in the 3G world.

NF is definitely behind the curve without daytime illumination. That would make their 1-4 much more marketable and cause sales to go way up currently. Still not perfect but a huge move in the right direction.

The Eotechs are not perfect and the ACOGs have lotsa shortcomings.

If the perfect scope was out there....it would sell. And a $1200 price point is totally worth it to me if its what I need. The 3G crowd knows what a low power CQB optic needs to be. I sometimes question if the Mil and LE actually do. They can easily fall into the category of "they don't know what they don't know".

Just because they have the LE or MIL title does not put them in the know. There are plenty of them in the know out there. But are they the ones pitching to the scope manufacturers?

[bigbrowndog]

I think NF reticles illuminate just fine, but a little brighter wouldn't hurt.

As for crossover from 3gun to Mil/LE I think if it works for us it will definitely work for them, although "they" do tend to like crappity crap in a reticle, its like they need to account for every possible contingency no matter how unlikely.

For me simple is by far better, as I said earlier if they could just take the CQB reticle and add 3 below center marks 4 moa apart it would make that reticle much better. it seems to me that would be the most cost effective approach.

Trapr

[kgunz11]

Tod your missing the point. Those folks are happy so they wont be a part of the market. The market share is too small to get anyone to spend too much money in R&D on what you want just because everything else is wrong or not good enough. There's only one perfect thing in this world, and you probably need to go change her diaper (illustrating a matter of perspective, (some people think what they have works and that's their perspective... big difference in perception and reality)). Everything else we can find fault in. Does that make sense?

What's wrong with your Swaro?

[00bullitt]

I think NF reticles illuminate just fine, but a little brighter wouldn't hurt.

Trapr

It needs to be much brighter. But just the dot. Mine was not even visible with cloud cover in mid day. It needs to be BRIGHT.

Bobby.....As for 3G guys.....if they can do what they do as fast as they do......don't you think it would translate to an advantage in MIL/LE?

[00bullitt]

Tod your missing the point. Those folks are happy so they wont be a part of the market. The market share is too small to get anyone to spend too much money in R&D on what you want just because everything else is wrong or not good enough. There's only one perfect thing in this world, and you probably need to go change her diaper (illustrating a matter of perspective, (some people think what they have works and that's their perspective... big difference in perception and reality)). Everything else we can find fault in. Does that make sense?

What's wrong with your Swaro?

I'm not missing THE point....I refuse to acknowledge it. I know and talk to way too many people in SF MIL and LE groups. They are not happy with what they have. If the product was out there....it would sell. Where the scope companies are wrong is that they don't listen where it matters. They get info from wrong sources and act off input from the wrong people. and then they invest big money and make the wrong product.

And actually.....A persons perception is their reality.

Nothing big is wrong with my Swarovski. I would prefer bigger zeroing knobs and a reticle like we are discussing such as Erik's with a 2moa dot. But it does everything I need it to in its current state.

[kgunz11]

Tod, LEO and Mil don't get to walk through the house before they have to clear it. I think there are mission specific options available to properly achieve the desired results available to LEO and Mil now. The Eotech works great for CQB stuff for LEO. When do they have to make shots outside of 100 yards? The Acog works great for the troops too with the current FO and tritium technology and stadia trees in their scopes. If I did not believe that you could bet your bottom $ I'd do everything in my power to get them something better. Do I think the current options for fighting guns can be improved? Yes, do I think what is available now is wrong? No. I'm not a 3G competitor, but I can pick up any one of my AR's and go to battle with them. I train, and THAT is the key to shortcomings in the optics realm.

I really want to help, I think you know that, you just got to give me something I can go to bat with.

[kgunz11]

Tod your missing the point. Those folks are happy so they wont be a part of the market. The market share is too small to get anyone to spend too much money in R&D on what you want just because everything else is wrong or not good enough. There's only one perfect thing in this world, and you probably need to go change her diaper (illustrating a matter of perspective, (some people think what they have works and that's their perspective... big difference in perception and reality)). Everything else we can find fault in. Does that make sense?

What's wrong with your Swaro?

I'm not missing THE point....I refuse to acknowledge it. I know and talk to way too many people in SF MIL and LE groups. They are not happy with what they have. If the product was out there....it would sell. Where the scope companies are wrong is that they don't listen where it matters. They get info from wrong sources and act off input from the wrong people. and then they invest big money and make the wrong product.

And actually.....A persons perception is their reality.

Nothing big is wrong with my Swarovski. I would prefer bigger zeroing knobs and a reticle like we are discussing such as Erik's with a 2moa dot. But it does everything I need it to in its current state.

Fixing the knobs is easy. I can do that with a phone call. BTDT.

[00bullitt]

Tod, LEO and Mil don't get to walk through the house before they have to clear it. I think there are mission specific options available to properly achieve the desired results available to LEO and Mil now. The Eotech works great for CQB stuff for LEO. When do they have to make shots outside of 100 yards? The Acog works great for the troops too with the current FO and tritium technology and stadia trees in their scopes. If I did not believe that you could bet your bottom $ I'd do everything in my power to get them something better. Do I think the current options for fighting guns can be improved? Yes, do I think what is available now is wrong? No. I'm not a 3G competitor, but I can pick up any one of my AR's and go to battle with them. I train, and THAT is the key to shortcomings in the optics realm.

I really want to help, I think you know that, you just got to give me something I can go to bat with.

I can pick up many different configurations of rifle and go to battle as well. But will I be as efficient as possible? No. I Want to be though. My equipment is currently setup to be as efficient as possible. Unfortunately the big Army and big Military don't have that choice. But all the SOG's and SF groups have the ability as well as local LE. And they are the ones spending the money. And if they start spending the money.....the big military will see the benefits. Most of the SF guys i know have the Elcan Specter DR on their carbines for battle. The ACOG is far from good and so is the Eotech. They work and serve there intended purpose.....but they are far from the most efficient. Efficiency is what its all about. And its not easy to find.