Illegal Equipment

[Ronnie j]

Say a limited shooter comes to the line with a 170mm mag in a pouch.

Ro: that mag not legal

Shooter: I'm just going to carry it

Ro:????

If the shooter uses it he goes to open, if the ro starts him with mag in the holder has either one of them done wrong? What if the ro starts him he completes the cof and a competiter protests the fact that that shooter had carried a big stick thru the cof.

I'm just trying to stir the pot

[Detlef]

present a real problem or situation, then you can hope to get an answer. What if the sky falls on the shooter? Reshoot?

Give us a break...

--Detlef

[TheOtherErik]

It's only illegal if you get caught

[C Sims]

detlef, the exact thing happened just as ronnie j described at a local club of mine. So now what would the correct ruling be? Inquiring minds want to know.

ps. the sky didn't fall that day......but if it did...... shootin would be the least of our worries!

[Vince Pinto]

Ronnie,

I cannot comment in respect of USPSA rules but, under IPSC rules, if you come to the line with a magazine longer than what's permitted for your division, you get relegate to Open Division. If you're already in Open and your magazine is longer than the mandated 170mm, then you shoot the match for no score. The applicable rule in the January 2004 Edition of the IPSC rulebook is:

6.2.5.1 However, if a competitor fails to satisfy the equipment or other requirements of a declared Division during a course of fire, the competitor will be placed in Open Division, if available, otherwise the competitor will shoot the match for no score.

Note that the text in bold above means "if it's on your person between the LAMR and Range is Clear" commands. Moreover, under the IPSC Standard Division rules (for example), it says:

SD16. A handgun in its ready condition (See Section 8.1), but unloaded and with an empty magazine inserted, must fit wholly within the confines of a box which has internal dimensions of 225mm x 150mm x 45mm (tolerance of +1 mm, -0 mm). Note that all magazines must comply, failing which Rule 6.2.5.1 will apply.

If a competitor tried to argue that "I was only carrying the illegal mag during the COF, but I had no intention of using it", you'd get the same response as a person walking into a bank with a loaded gun or a stick of TNT using the same argument.

Hope this helps.

[Garfield]

I had a situation like this on a L3 match I was Ro-ing a few weeks back.

Novice shooter comes up to me holding two +2 G17 magazines and asks if they are legal for him to use. After some discussion we found out that he intented to shoot PD (he didn't know the IPSC divisions !) I told him that they were illegal and that he should leave them in his bag and keep them out of sight of the RO's He agreed without discussion, he wanted to comply but just lacked knowledge. Indeed the argument "I am not using it" is IMO invalid.

[Vince Pinto]

Arvid,

I had an identical problem in Hong Kong at our first Level III a few years back. I was RM and about 25% of the competitors turned up with Glocks with +2 baseplates attached to their magazines expecting to shoot Production.

Being a sweet and cuddly guy, I gave them all a friendly warning but I advised them they would be spanked and sent to the salt mines for future non-compliance with the rules. In the interim, I asked them nicely to either remove the +2 baseplates or shoot Standard Division.

The response was about 50/50 but, at the next match, they were all good boys, so I affixed little gold stars to their scoresheets

[Skywalker]

Why do such nice competitors only exist in the next-door neighbor garden/range?

I'm quite envious...