I bought a Hornady Lock and Load AP...

[S391]

I picked up a Hornady Lock & Load AP last night and I'm hoping to set it up this weekend but I wanted to see if anyone had any advice they could share with me or any insights that they learned from setting up / running their own presses.

Does anyone run the case feeder? I hope to have one by the end of the year but I want to read some feedback before I invest the extra $300.

Thanks.

[lugnut]

It's pretty easy to set up and use if you have any experience reloading at all. The trickiest thing is using the powder thru expanders with small cases like 9mm. It takes some fiddling to get it right- but once it's set it cake.

[S391]

It's pretty easy to set up and use if you have any experience reloading at all. The trickiest thing is using the powder thru expanders with small cases like 9mm. It takes some fiddling to get it right- but once it's set it cake.

Thanks,

I have a set of Lee Dexlue Pistol Dies that I'm going to try and use but I'm in no hurry so I hope to take my time and do it right......

[Jim M.]

S391, congratulations on your purchase. I think you will like the press.

On setting it up and running it, my first suggestion is to mount it solidly on a solid work bench. If the press can shake or vibrate, that will introduce problems.

Be sure to disassemble and clean the powder measure before you start, to get the rust preventative off the inside of it. When you get it set up on the case activated powder drop, make sure that the powder measure will drop (metering insert back down) of its own weight before you add the return spring or go any further. If it won’t, it’s still gooey inside, and needs to be cleaned. Once it’s clean, you won’t have any problems with jamming after you add the return spring.

Like lugnut says, setting up the powder-through expanders can be a bear. If you are going to load multiple calibers, I suggest getting a separate Quick Change Powder Die (Hornady No. 050074) for each caliber. That way, you won’t have to set the adjustment for each caliber more than once. When you set up the powder measure, first set the case flare, then the powder quantity.

You can also get separate powder measure metering inserts or a micrometer metering insert, but I’ve never minded the powder measure adjustment much. It’s much quicker and easier than the case flare adjustment – maybe because it’s easier to reach even after you have all of the other dies set up.

All of the rest of the set-up is pretty well covered in the manual. The LNL is a fairly complicated piece of equipment, and you really will need to follow the manual to get it set up properly. Don’t try to just disregard the manual like you would if you were assembling one of your kids’ Christmas toys. This is more complicated. RTFM.

Let us know how it runs.

Okay, the case feeder!

I have one, and wouldn’t be without it. But I tend to load in fairly large production runs. While the LNL set-up was quick and simple, the case feeder was another story. I had several problems with the case feeder, and put in quite a few calls to Hornady Tech Support before we got all of the problems sorted out. They did finally get all of the problems sorted out. It took a disassembly of the case feeder bowl and elongating four screw holes, then a new drop tube to finally get the feeder to drop .45 ACP shells without having them bounce off the press. The case feeder now works well.

I expect that the average reloader can set up and run the LNL with no real problems. If you get a case feeder, plan on a longer troubleshooting time and a lot more work. The casefeeder is NOT a no-brainer, in my experience. It is worth the trouble, though, once it is running.

Your Lee Deluxe pistol dies will work well in the press. I recommend that you replace the Lee lock rings with Hornady (or RCBS) lock rings. As I recall, the Deluxe set includes the Lee Factory Crimp Die. That will give you the best crimp – I use them on all of the calibers I reload.

What caliber(s) are you going to be reloading?

Jim M.

[S391]

Thanks for the info. I will be loading 9mm and pretty much 9mm only. I shoot IDPA and I want to be able to keep enough ammo on hand so I can shoot / practice / train when I want vs. having to worry about what I can locate at the various local outlets.

I decided to go with Hornady dies and I have a set on the way (I forgot to pick up a shellplate so I figured I might as well go with the Hornady dies at the same time). They seem to have a better reputation than the Lee dies and I might as well go with something that will be me free bullets

I'll play with it over the weekend and I hope to be turning out ammo next week. I'll post an update once I have it all in place.

thanks once again,

Steve

[lugnut]

Steve- I switched to the RCBS dies for all my pistols now. I used to use Hornady but I think their tolerances aren't as good for some of the brass I was using- didn't resize some brass good enough. RCBS- problem gone. Crimp die is almost required for 9mm cases IMO... although I mostly use RCBS dies- when a round doesn't fit the cartridge check gauge - 99% work fine when I put them thru the Lee FCD. I'm just too lazy to switch and I have a single stage for the FCD.. and that way I can decide whether or not to mark the case as junk so I don't reuse it.

I haven't got around to getting a case feeder but like Jim M said- I've heard from many that once you get it running it's great. I get 200-300/hr taking my time without the case feeder. I'd love more volume as reloading is a chore just like taking out the trash!

[Jeff686]

Yea, the case feeder is a BIG PLUS.

I used bake cleaner on all the metal parts of the powder measure. Gotta get that shipping grease off. However, it also seemed to loosen the paint. Maybe a less agressive solvent would be appropriate.

If you don't want to start messing with the powder thought expander, and you have an extra unused spot, you can expand and powder drop separately. That would ease setup for the first runs...

Be careful to lock down the die into the bushing. Some of my bushings sit tight in the press, and I have accidentally unscrewed a die when I meant unlock the bushing. Along the same lines, if you have a bushing that is looser than the others, don't use it on the powder drop. It can slowly rotate and unlock (oops).

When you get the case feeder, buy some spare shell-plate case retention springs. I found that they got munched up a little more often.

Also, Lee powder measures work in this press too, so if you buy used dies or have old stuff lying around (like I did), you can use their powder measure/expander system as well.

I had a lot of trouble adjusting the powder-through expander for 38 super. So much that I designed an adjustable stop to help fine tune the system. When I setup for 9mm (for a friend), I used old Lee dies, and the Lee disk-measure. It was much easier to adjust the expander. However, I have a very expensive scale and did a study of powder drop accuracy and precision, and found the Hornady powder drop to be far superior. Typical tradeoff...

Buy a big strong quartier-sized magnet (lowes and home depot have them) and stick it on the press chassis. I use it to hold the popular sizes of allen wrenches.

Don't use too much torque on the primer tube bolt (where it meets the shell plate). You need to only finger tighten, plus a little. If it is having trouble picking up a primer, try adjusting the torque. Also, frequently check this bolt, since it can come loose as you work.

Sorry this wasn't very well organized, I'm multitasking on a conference call...

Edited November 11, 2009 by Jeff686

[S391]

does anyone run Hornady's Powder Cop Die? It looks like a pretty good option to me so i have one on the way..... I figure it can't hurt.....

[lugnut]

does anyone run Hornady's Powder Cop Die? It looks like a pretty good option to me so i have one on the way..... I figure it can't hurt.....

I think mine is the RCBS cop die. It's not the lock out die (which I hear can be challenging to work) but instead is a plunger with an o-ring to watch. One of the huge reasons for the LNL for me was the extra station for this! Must have!

[DarthMuffin]

The pistol micrometer insert is great. Locktite the allen head screw on the end of the micrometer lever though, they tend to come loose and then all of the "numbers" you wrote down to quickly duplicate loads are worthless.

I use an RCBS powder check, just because it was available. Works great!

(edit: mine is the lockout die, no problems getting it working. It's not extremely sensitive, with mine set at 4.6g of titegroup it won't lock up at 3gr or 6gr for example, but it will lock with a double load or squib load)

The best addition was a vibra-prime and 3 extra tubes, but they're not available any more With that I can start with 100 in the press and 400 more loaded in tubes to quickly crank out 500 rounds in a session.

An 1/8" wood dowel in the primer tube makes a good dipstick to tell you when you're low on primers. Mark it or put a piece of tape so you know when "out" is.

I have the case feeder, it's nice! For .40 S&W you'll probably need to use a mix of the large and small tubes supplied. Large clear plastic feed tube and small everything else. The most critical adjustment to getting the case feeder working is the gap between the top of the case and the bottom of the feed tube. Too little and you don't get a case, too much and you get doubles sometimes. It's a fine line.

If you feel the need to adjust the pawls (you might, I had to), study them well to make sure you understand how they work first. Adjust one at a time in very small increments, they're sensitive.

Edited November 11, 2009 by DarthMuffin

[Jim M.]

I don’t load the 9mm very often, but on the rare occasions that my son shoots IDPA, I load some 9mm for either a Beretta or a 1911 in 9mm. Either of those is easy to load for. Like lugnut, I use RCBS dies for the 9mm, except that I also use a Lee Factory Crimp die. Since you should have a Factory Crimp Die with your Lee Deluxe die set, by all means use that for the crimp stage. I have never had any problems with the Hornady die sets (in other calibers).

If you shoot a Glock or might end up with some brass fired in a Glock, you should be aware of the famous “Glocked brass” problem. Because of the chamber of the Glock that is unsupported at the feed ramp, brass fired in a Glock sometimes develops a “Glock bulge” at that point. Since there is no guarantee that the brass will go back in the chamber in exactly the same way it went in the last time it was fired, it is necessary to remove the Glock bulge when you reload 9mm. I don’t have the problem myself, because both the Beretta and the 1911 will shoot just about anything. But some guns will have a problem chambering the bulged brass.

You should chamber-check your loaded rounds before you trust them for use in a match. A cartridge gauge is a good investment for that purpose. They are cheap. If you get some rounds that fail to chamber in the cartridge gauge, it might help to buy an EGW “U” die. That is a slightly tighter (0.001") sizing die which is also ground so that it sizes the case closer to the rim. I use those in both .40 S & W and .45 ACP (the two pistol cartridges that I load for most), and they are worthwhile. You can use it to replace the standard sizing die in whatever die set you were previously using. It doesn’t add any steps to the loading process. But don’t buy it unless you need it. Get the cartridge gauge to check your loaded ammo. Then, if you have a problem, get the “U” die to solve it.

The Hornady book on the powder measure recommends Hornady One-Shot Gun Cleaner and Dry Lube for cleaning the powder measure, so that is what I used. This is NOT the same stuff as the Hornady One-Shot Case Lube, so make sure you get the cleaner. I always try to keep brake cleaner away from any painted metal parts. It’s a little like brake fluid, only brake fluid is even worse at removing paint. I’m careful to keep both of those away from any paint.

Although 9mm cases resized in carbide dies don’t technically need lube, I find that everything goes a lot smoother is you lube the cases. The best lube for this purpose is Hornady One-Shot Case Lube. Since it is wax-based, it dries completely dry, and you don’t have to clean it off the loaded ammo before you shoot it. Besides making the loading process smoother, it also seems to make guns run smoother. Stripping cartridges from the magazine into the chamber benefits from some One-Shot Case Lube left on the cases. I learned that trick from our host, Brian Enos!

By the way, I DON’T recommend Hornady One-Shot Case Lube for resizing rifle cases. They WILL get stuck! Don’t ask me how I know!

If you have a Lock-N-Load bushing that doesn’t seem to lock tightly enough in the press, you can get an oversize rubber O-ring that will tighten that up. I believe Hornady will send you a couple of those for the asking, if you call their Tech Support line.

Jeff686 said:

Sorry this wasn't very well organized, I'm multitasking on a conference call...

I thought his post was very well organized1 It must have been the guy on the other end of the conference call who suffered! LOL!

Jim M.

[lugnut]

Jim M is the man! I agree with everything he says. I chamber check all my rounds- why? Because even in a practice I want to try to narrow down all sources of potential problems. I KNOW that any ejection problem are NOT becuase of oversized cartridges. I also use case lube for 9mm... makes it much smoother. I haven't found the need for the U die in 9mm... but use it exclusively for .40!!

[Jim M.]

Before I bought the LNL, I used a Hornady Projector for 23 years. I used an RCBS Powder Check die on that – the one with the O-ring like lugnut mentioned. I was never satisfied with it because if I had any distractions, I might forget to look at the plunger at the top of the ram travel.

I had an extra Dillon Powder Check System in the shop from my 1050, so I modified the LNL press to clear the operating rod for that, and installed it on my LNL. It buzzes if the powder charge is too low or too high, and I don’t have to pay any attention to it unless it buzzes. The perfect system, in my opinion.

It has two disadvantages: (1) They cost $65.95 each; and (2) You have to break out the Dremel tool and grind a channel in the side of the LNL for clearance of the operating rod. You also have to add an extra 1-1/4" washer to the end of the operating rod, but that’s easy to do and cheap.

To me, it was worth the effort and cost.

Jim M.

[Canuck-IL]

Pistol micrometer - don't try and read the little bitty numbers - use a caliper and measure the spread to the head.

I use a brass rod on top of the primer stack - the deadweight keeps those last 2 in the tube feeding smoothly.

One-Shot works great - just not for bottleneck calibers.

Use Dawn or some similar grease cutter on the powder drop tube - nastly packing film in there. Hoppe's or similar on new dies and metal parts.

Great press ... blow out the primer slide and hose over the plate with compressed air every now and then, lube the fittings every blue moon - runs forever, great consistency with most powders.

/Bryan

[S391]

Use Dawn or some similar grease cutter on the powder drop tube - nastly packing film in there. Hoppe's or similar on new dies and metal parts.

thanks, I'm watching Hornady's video on the powder drop right now and I figure that will be my project this evening.... I like the idea of using Dawn for the drop tube... I have no idea where to pick up the Hornady stuff they use in the video. I figure I should be ok if I rinse it out and dry it right away.

[CocoBolo]

Wow lots of good advice. I have loaded 1000's of 9 mm, with very good results. SAMMI gage is an essential tool if it does not drop in and out freely its a reject.

I don't use the Hornady powder thru expander I use their seperate expander much better control of belling and a lot less fiddling around with adjusting the powder measure. That powder thru tends to break my 38SC brass.

I use the pistol powder rotor and a seperate powder insert for each caliber I load. Adjust once and that's it.

The case feeder is worth the effort but even with expierence after a caliber change it takes a couple hundred rounds of loading to get it perfect. If your not loading 1000+ at a time then it will cost you more time in set up than you save. If you have one make sure you have sorted your brass as a 9 inside of a 40 costs a lot of time as does a 45 in the mix.

I don't use any lube and run either the EGW U die or the Hornady sizing die. For Jacketed bullets you can use the Lee Factory Crimp but on lead use a taper die, a the lee will undersize the bullet then it will likley fall out at the wrong time.

I struggled with the LNL for a while with the Indexing off, when I finally got brave enough to adjust it I found out how easy it was and how well the loader actually works. I only do 1/8 to 1/4 round adjustment then test, when it is on it really makes a difference setting primers and sizing cases. The final straw was when the powder was on the shell plate and not in the case that was caused by indexing being off.

Keep a small parts brush handy, when powder gets on the shell plate clean it off, or it will get into the primer punch a gum things up.

Learn the feel of the press when you start the down stroke and it does not feel right, you are about to break something, stop and figure it out. Now look at everything and make sure you got powder where it belongs etc. If you have any doubts put everything in the mistake bucket and then start over again. Most major fowl ups like double charge and squib come from these kinds of interruptions.

9 MM takes a good crimp. Getting the right length is a matter of loading a few and checking them in your mags and the gun, my Sig eats anything the wife's CZ well size matters and its smaller this time.

I have both Dillon and Hornady they are both top of the line machines. My production load is 4.2gr TiteGroup with a 124gr MTG CMF chrono at 131pf out of a Beretta 92 at Area 8, same length as Winchester White Box.

[S391]

Thank you everyone, tons of good tips that I will take to heart.

One more quick question, what did / do you use to clean all the grease and gunk off the powder drop rig? I own tons of cleaners but their comment about using something with a dry lubricant makes me wonder if the stuff I have will just screw it up......

My first thought was to use poly safe gun scrubber on all the metal parts but that would strip any lube off and leave it "naked"....... Am I putting too much thought into this?

[Field]

On setting it up and running it, my first suggestion is to mount it solidly on a solid work bench. If the press can shake or vibrate, that will introduce problems.

beleive me it does

[Waldog]

As some of the previous posts mentioned, the powder thru expanders are hard to adjust to work properly. THEY DO WORK! However, if you have only one powder die and are switching from a short 9mm to a 44 mag, adjusting the expanders for proper case bell is a pain. I bought this little jewel: http://www.powderfunnels.com/ and my case adjusting days are MUCH easier. I must confess, I purchased several powder dies (about $17 each). Each pistol case I load has its own dedicated, adjusted powder die. Swapping calibers now takes about 5 minutes.

Check it out!! http://www.powderfunnels.com/

Edited November 12, 2009 by Waldog

[Jim M.]

S391 posted:

My first thought was to use poly safe gun scrubber on all the metal parts but that would strip any lube off and leave it "naked"....... Am I putting too much thought into this?

Probably not too much thought, Steve, but maybe too much worry!

I used the Hornady One-Shot Gun Cleaner and Dry Lube because that was what Hornady recommended in the manual for the powder measure. As the name implies, it also leaves a very thin film of dry lube on the inside of the powder measure that won't gum up with powder. Most small gun shops may not carry it, but you can get it from the big Internet distributors, such as Natchez or Midsouth. Just put a can of it on your next order for shellplates, primers, etc. If you don't already have it, get a can of Hornady One-Shot Case Lube, also.

If I didn't have any of the Gun Cleaner on hand, I would just use Hoppe's No. 9, and wipe the powder measure down really well with a dry cloth (shop towel). and then put one small drop of oil on each of the EXTERNAL pivot points of the case-activated linkage. No oil inside!

Don't you have that press running yet? You should have thousands of rounds loaded by now!

Get off the computer and get to work!

Jim M.

[styx]

My first thought was to use poly safe gun scrubber on all the metal parts but that would strip any lube off and leave it "naked"....... Am I putting too much thought into this?

Nope, good question. Poly safe cleaners will work fine (I use them on mine). Use a dry lube like spray moly or graphite to lube the powder measure, etc. You might want to pick up a spare case retainer spring or two, I've messed up a couple of those. Also pick up a 1/2" x 2" fender washer and lay it in the bottom of your powder measure for a baffle. If you're using a fine powder it will really improve the consistency of your powder charges. Good luck with your new "toy" and ENJOY!

[S391]

I used the Hornady One-Shot Gun Cleaner and Dry Lube because that was what Hornady recommended in the manual for the powder measure. As the name implies, it also leaves a very thin film of dry lube on the inside of the powder measure that won't gum up with powder. Most small gun shops may not carry it, but you can get it from the big Internet distributors, such as Natchez or Midsouth. Just put a can of it on your next order for shellplates, primers, etc. If you don't already have it, get a can of Hornady One-Shot Case Lube, also.

If I didn't have any of the Gun Cleaner on hand, I would just use Hoppe's No. 9, and wipe the powder measure down really well with a dry cloth (shop towel). and then put one small drop of oil on each of the EXTERNAL pivot points of the case-activated linkage. No oil inside!

Don't you have that press running yet? You should have thousands of rounds loaded by now!

Get off the computer and get to work!

Jim M.

I got the press mounted and lined up last night but I'm waitng on the delivery of my shellplate (the store I bough the prss from didn't have the correct size onhand).

soon....

Edited November 12, 2009 by S391

[CocoBolo]

Cleaning the Powder Measure.

I got along fine till I started loading Accurate 7. This powder drove me a little nuts till I got things figured out.

I clean all parts of the powder measure except the plastic with CR Brake cleaner, by the way it works very well on guns as well. I was using the Hornady One shot lube and cleaner but had to cease and dissist with Accurate 7.

I also recommend that when you change powders take a 45 cal bore brush and run it thur the inside of the powder drop tubes as some powder will accumulate in there and that will cause inconsistent charges.

I clean the plastic tube when need with an Orange Hand Cleaner. This make it clear again after it turns black from powder.

Also note that the plastic tube can come lose during loading. There is nothing like that when you are setting there with lap full of powder and a smoke hanging out of your mouth. I used two cures the first was duct tape it never fell while being held in place with duct tape. The second was turning it upside down so that the flat part of the edge is down and the

beveled end is up top.

Always make sure you lock the powder measure in good, as you are loading along if you have not secured it, it will start going up and down as you crank out one squib after the next.

[20nickels]

Also note that the plastic tube can come lose during loading. There is nothing like that when you are setting there with lap full of powder and a smoke hanging out of your mouth. I used two cures the first was duct tape it never fell while being held in place with duct tape. The second was turning it upside down so that the flat part of the edge is down and the

beveled end is up top.

Always make sure you lock the powder measure in good, as you are loading along if you have not secured it, it will start going up and down as you crank out one squib after the next.

Did you look anything like this?

H'day provided me with a small shim that goes on top of the LNL bushing's O-ring. This tighten's up your powder measures bushing just enough that it doesn't come loose although it's never happened to me. Hope that makes sense.

[20nickels]

Also, there is a small knurled hand screw that anchors the bottom of the powder measure linkage. This comes loose . Put a machine screw in the other side (10-32, I think) to bottom it out and lock it in place.