jjustice Posted November 28, 2003 Share Posted November 28, 2003 I have A S&W 625-6 that has shown rapid metal fatique. After about 2000 rounds the cylinder lock grooves deformed and allowed the cylinder to "pass by" (S&W terminology, mine isn't printable)). I peened the deformed metal back into shape and sent it to Smiths for evaluation. They sent it back with a note that they saw no problem. After about another thousand rounds it had the same problem. Again, off to Smiths and they returned it with a new cylinder. 2000 rounds later, guess what, the same problem. Again off to Smiths and the gun was returned with another new cylinder. The metal is also deforming where the cylinder bumps up against the lug on the frame during reloading. I have dry fired the gun about 50 times and shot 6 rounds to check the function. I can detect metal deformation already on the cylinder. I've noticed no wear at all on older -3's and some on other newer 625's. Have a look at what you have and see if you are experiencing my problem. Joe Justice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Round_Gun_Shooter Posted November 29, 2003 Share Posted November 29, 2003 Joe, My 625 is an older model and shows no wear. My thought on this is Timing If you are getting lockup so early that you are forcing the hand against the cylinder stop, it could be a problem. Also, check the cylinder stop for razor sharp edges. I usually break the edge when I fit a stop to reduce cylinder line wear and to ad to smoothness of the action. Sorry I have nothing further and I hope this is a help. Regards, Gary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjustice Posted November 30, 2003 Author Share Posted November 30, 2003 Gary, I would like to think that with 3 trips to S&W and 3 trips to my local gunsmith that timing and sharp edges are not the problem. I believe that the metal is too soft. Joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricW Posted November 30, 2003 Share Posted November 30, 2003 Consider contacting Frank Glenn: Glenn Custom Frank is wise in the ways of S&W and may know tricks your 'smith doesn't. My experience with Smith warranty service is that the squeaky wheel gets the oil and you'd better squeak loud. The non-squeaky get a plain parts swap and had just damned well better be happy they got *that*. When my gun came back from Smith wrong, I had to ask to speak to the Prez to plead my case to get it fixed properly. Finally the custom shop took over resolved the issue. That was over ten years ago, so sadly, nothing would have seemed to have changed. The new owners are based in Scottsdale, so if *nothing* gets you satisfaction you might take that avenue. Smith really needs to relocate all their production east of the Mississippi and get away from the union a-holes that have killed their quality and their reputation. They have great designs, it's the execution that's the problem. A team of quality manufacturing engineers could turn the brand around in a year - given the chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Round_Gun_Shooter Posted November 30, 2003 Share Posted November 30, 2003 Gary, I would like to think that with 3 trips to S&W and 3 trips to my local gunsmith that timing and sharp edges are not the problem. I would hope that is true, Joe, but were it my revolver, I would check the timing. I have seen some revolvers out of the Performance Center in the last couple years that were not fitted as they should be. Long ratchets was the greatest problem. As far as the other post on customer service, unfortunately not all repair people are as familiar with revolvers as others. Sad, but true. I think I would explain the problem to a Customer Service Rep, ask for Don, and see what he thinks. Best of luck, Gary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpeedStick Posted November 30, 2003 Share Posted November 30, 2003 jjustice, I had exactly the same problem with a S&W 627 8-shot 357 mag. After about 2000 rounds the locking lugs in the cylinder were penned over. I sent it in to S&W and they replaced the cylinder. I've now got about 500 rounds on the new cylinder and it is doing the same thing! I believe the cylinders are not properly heat treated? I have a 8-shot, that was built before S&W made them, with over 70 K rounds through it and the locking lugs are as square as the day they were new! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjustice Posted December 1, 2003 Author Share Posted December 1, 2003 Phil, I've been trying to convince people of the soft metal theory ever since I first noticed the deformation problem. Almost everyone says timing, although one person said I was pulling the trigger too hard. But like I say 3 trips back to Smiths and 3 to my gun smith who said that he could chamfer my cylinder with his pocket knife it was so soft, and I believe I know where the trouble lies. I am still interested in seeing if anyone else is having the same problem. You, I and 3 others so far. Joe Justice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phara Posted December 1, 2003 Share Posted December 1, 2003 Same problem here. I starting seeing it within a few weeks of buying the PC627. This was two years ago. It seemed to reach a point where it didn't get any worse. I didn't do anything about it until about a month ago as it didn't seem to affect performance. My friend took a fine gunsmithing file and flattened the little ridge that had developed. Then he took a bead blaster to it and it looks great. I'll keep an eye on it to see if it comes back. As I said I'm not certain that this defect causes a performance problem. I can't really notice a difference from before and after the smoothing process, but maybe others have. Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bountyhunter Posted December 1, 2003 Share Posted December 1, 2003 Phil, I've been trying to convince people of the soft metal theory ever since I first noticed the deformation problem. Almost everyone says timing, although one person said I was pulling the trigger too hard. But like I say 3 trips back to Smiths and 3 to my gun smith who said that he could chamfer my cylinder with his pocket knife it was so soft, and I believe I know where the trouble lies. I am still interested in seeing if anyone else is having the same problem. You, I and 3 others so far. Joe Justice Considering what I've seen on new SW guns, I would be averse to discounting any possibility when it comes to Murphy's Law. It is possible that stainless parts can be too soft either due to using the wrong formula of SS (there are at least 500 registered formulae) or the part is not heat treated properly if such a process is used. FWIW, all of my stainless whellguns show the same peening over time but not after only a couple of thousand rounds. It is true that "snapping" the trigger in DA will accelerate this wear because the revolver will have much more momentum when the stop latch drops into the slot and stops the cylinder. It also wears a notch in the frame slot where the cylinder stop latch comes up (look for that on your gun). BTW: Ruger had some slide bolts made a while back that were as soft as lead fishing weights (I got one on my Mk II). They replaced it no charge and it has been fine since. This stuff does happen, but I think SW would be the last to know because they do zero QA on their parts. Checking hardness is very easy to do if you know somebody who works at a machine shop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bountyhunter Posted December 1, 2003 Share Posted December 1, 2003 Same problem here. I starting seeing it within a few weeks of buying the PC627. This was two years ago. It seemed to reach a point where it didn't get any worse. That supports the "soft metal" theory. Metal experiences what is called "strain hardening" as it is compressed. As the material is peened over by the latch, the part it hits is getting harder and the effect slows down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpeedStick Posted December 2, 2003 Share Posted December 2, 2003 jjustice, I, like you, believe the metal is too soft. Hence, why did they use a titanium nitrate finish on the 627 38 Super cylinders? I've got over 8,000 rounds thru the 38 super with NO peening at all! And I believe it is on the newer guns, the frame mount firing pin era. I negected to mention, my custom 8-shot has a stainless cylinder but it is heat treated to RC 42. With over 60,000 rounds the cylinder locking lugs are like new. I've also heard "you are cranking to hard on the trigger" bull too! In my opinion it is just an excuse used to blame the owner not the firearm! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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