Chuck D Posted November 2, 2003 Share Posted November 2, 2003 I just received by copy of Front Sight. When reading the Guns and Gear section of the Top 16 in L10 Division...I found the following info interesting. The Top 16 was dominated by guns built on Para/STI/SV frames. STI led the pack with 9 of the 16 shooters using that brand. All were in 40 caliber. No single stack pistols to be found here whatsoever. The Top 16 was dominated by "race holsters" manufactured by Safariland, Rescomp, Ghost , Limcat and USA (Frank Garcia). No "carry gun" type holsters used whatsoever. According to several previous posts on this and other forums, L10 Division rules should be changed to reflect the types of gear people are most likely to own and use (Single Stack guns and carry type holsters). While I don't doubt that further down the list the majority of the remaining competitors MAY use 1911 guns and Blade Tech holsters...I would have thought that at least ONE of the Top 16 would have used a SS gun or a carry gun type holster. It goes without saying that the gear used by the Top 16 may just be "the" gear to use and may just be "the" most popular gear in USPSA shooting today. One of the key elements for change...the USPSA President...was listed as using a Wide Body STI and a Safariland 012 holster.... Food for thought... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ankeny Posted November 2, 2003 Share Posted November 2, 2003 Obviously they all believe in picking one and practicing. It only makes sense to shoot the same pistol and gear in Limited and L10 if all you have to do is to download the magazines. In retrospect I regret shooting my way into low level, inconsistent, master in both L10 and Limited Divisions. I missed a great opportunity to work my but off in M class limited (to avoid moving up in L10) with a fat gun, then take the same gear to a bigger match and shoot in A class for the cookies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tightloop Posted November 2, 2003 Share Posted November 2, 2003 Ron Don't try to kid anyone, you have too many ethics to allow yourself to sandbag like that. We've all seen it, though. A shooters who post low GM HF's. It is discouraging. It will be interesting to see if Duane Thomas can do anything with his carry rig as he progresses in L10. I, on the other hand fully expect to get kicked around a bit as I get back into USPSA, shooting L10. The plan is to shoot as many matches as possible to again learn to deal with match nerves, and match tactics in L10, while waiting for my Foo Foo gun to be completed. Chuck When you get to the top 16 in any national match, those guys are looking for any help at all. You get some of that with a race rig and wide body gun. They want to win, not have to say, "Well I did ok for shooting a SS gun, made the top 16." Can't blame them at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimel Posted November 2, 2003 Share Posted November 2, 2003 I rather doubt that the gear of the top 16 is reflective of what is used by the majority nationwide. Hopefully the decisions being made at the BoD meetings this weekend are not based upon this very limited sample. In fact, I would suspect that even a gear survey of Nationals would not be all that indicative of the gear used by the masses. If you gathered all the data at all the Areas then you might be getting close to a reasonable cross-section. Why? Because there are a lot of active participants in USPSA matches at the local level which will never attend Nationals for a variety of reasons, expense being primary among them (as a guess). More of them will attend Area competitions. Area 1 L10 was won by a Single Stack shooter. No idea where he came out at Nats but obviously he wasn't top 16 or he switched to a wide body for Nats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveZ Posted November 2, 2003 Share Posted November 2, 2003 Obviously they all believe in picking one and practicing. It only makes sense to shoot the same pistol and gear in Limited and L10 if all you have to do is to download the magazines. That's pretty much the same way I see it. The "big dogs" in the top 16 are name recognition shooters who all shoot Limited as well. It only makes sense to use the same gun that you're familar with....download the mags to 10 rounds and go shoot the FGN with the same gun. As for the gear...same deal. I doubt there are many "top 16" shooters that shoot a single stack exclusively in L10 and something different in Limited (not counting TGO). Speaking of which...TGO shot the Area 1 Championship in L10 a couple years back with a single stack Springfield....and beat other shooters using widebody guns. As I recall....if you put all the divisions together...TGO still came out first or maybe second. I think if one was to look at the type of guns that are typically used at club or smaller championship matches...they'd see that single stacks would be the gun of choice....primarily because those shooters are interested in L10 and probably not Limited division crossovers. I agree with Kimel...hopefully the BOD won't use this as fuel to change the L10 division. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck D Posted November 2, 2003 Author Share Posted November 2, 2003 tightloop...I'm blaming no one for anything... The point here is...there are people out there whom want to restrict L10 Division by making it SS only and by restricting holster brand/location choices. My point is why restrict those that have found the "better mouse trap"? Obviously the FGN's Top 16 have done just that. I find it increasingly interesting that the USPSA President...whom is lobbying for restrictions in regards to style and location in regards to holster legality didn't "believe" enough in his proposal to lead by example at the FGN's. Shooters BUY what the Top Professionals in this sport use and win with. I'm sure that STI/SV/Para and Glock would be less than receptive to sponsorship requests if they find themselves "shut out" of an entire division . Production Division is quickly becoming a Division dominated by Glocks... Should we "push them out" because they are the "better mouse trap" ? Notice the irony here....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tightloop Posted November 2, 2003 Share Posted November 2, 2003 Chuck Didn't mean to suggest you were blaming anyone for anything. I see the irony in what you are saying, but think that lobbying to Mike Voigt directly might be more constructive and have more impact than discussing it here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck D Posted November 2, 2003 Author Share Posted November 2, 2003 Tightloop, make no mistake. there was more than a bit of "lobbying" being done by me to a variety of parties (some more interested than others) regarding this subject. MV was one of many I contacted. Discussing it here is just another way of "reaching the masses" . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Norman Posted November 3, 2003 Share Posted November 3, 2003 With all due respect, L-10 should be simply Limited Lite! Same exact gear as in Limited, and no other restrictions. It allows those poor souls in California and Hawaii to shoot a full blow Limited gun and gear at home, then travel elsewhere and shoot Limited if they so desire! If you want to shoot a single stack, feel free! If you want to shoot a carry class, they maybe you should be in production? It is posibble to shoot a Single Stack from a race hosler and win, from a Blade-Tec or similar, I am not as sure. But leave L-10 alone! Please! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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