Forget Everything Else

[nashvillebill]

Yes, let's get back on subject before this thread is moved to the semantics forum. Practice well and when it's time to perform your mind is clear to do the task at hand. Shoot the dot.

[kgunz11]

I know what you are saying Pat, and I agree with what you are saying. "Muscle memory" is just the term we use to associate neuromuscular facilitation, which does exist. Even though the term coined is misleading, the intent behind the term is accurate, and it's much easier to say than "neuromuscular facilitation".

It's akin to saying "the car just drives better". The car doesn't drive, and isn't capable of driving on its own, but it might be perceived as being easier to drive. Yet so many people will still say that. Another good one is "the gun shoots better". The term we use for some things might not be accurate, but it is what it is.

The act of combing your hair or brushing your teeth falls under "muscle memory", even though the muscle has no memory, it's what we common folk call it.

[WINGMEN10]

PPPSSSSTTTT.....Here is a crazy idea...

I think i am going to get off the computer and go practice

LOL

T-VS

[JThompson]

I would submit that "shoot alphas" is even to much, because if I'm shooting the sights/dot I'm already shooting alphas, so I say shoot the dot and all the other BS doesn't matter.

JT

Nice.

Shooting Alphas is an idea or result about something you might do. Shoot (see) the dot (or front sight) is the most direct activity you can do.

I have some exceptionally well shot stages that are still clearly burned into my mind. And for each one of them, the only aspect I can remember is the front sight razor sharp on the target(s). Mentally: calm, just watching.

It takes a while to get there. You have to train until you have no doubts at all about anything you need to see or do.

But like with anything, working long and hard enough to get down to the root basics pays off in the end.

It's best to start at the beginning, and eventually with enough training you'll end up back at there.

be

I know what are talking about... here's how it feels to me when it happens... you ever look at the bouncing ball for reading help.. you know like on a karaoke deal where the dot bounces over each word and then lifts off and alights on the next? That's what I remember when it's all working right.

JT

Edited July 29, 2009 by JThompson

[JThompson]

they are controled by the mind and you can either think your way through an action, or program it into your subconscious.

And muscle memory is biomechanics, it's real, and it's a proven scientific occurrence. Maybe my mind is a little more advanced, though I highly doubt it, but I disagree with what you said in your post.

Here's a little reading for you from Wikipedia about muscle memory. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muscle_memory

Pat is correct and your wiki article agree with him, maybe you just didn't see the trees through the forsest but here are the copied highlights of the article

Even though the process is really brain-muscle memory or motor memory, the colloquial expression "muscle memory" is commonly used.

Muscle memory is fashioned over time through repetition of a given suite of motor skills and the ability through brain activity to inculcate and instill it such that they become automatic. To the beginner, activities such as brushing the teeth, combing the hair, or even driving a vehicle are not as easy as they look. As one reinforces those movements through repetition, the neural system learns those fine and gross motor skills to the degree that one no longer needs to think about them, but merely to react and perform appropriately.

This what I was getting at with my posts, I find I shoot much better when I ditch everything and let my subconscious mind (my shooter) control the show. I have practiced enough that the neural pathways have formed and I no longer have to have consciuos control over them while I am shooting a stage. Now that doesn't mean I don't need to constantly tune those pathways for better performance, that is why I continue to practice.

to me this is the essence of practice; programing subconscious skills.

Yes. Your job at that point is to observe what's going on and make notes for things you see might be improved and then work them into the subconscious with more training. That's where I feel a camera is a great tool as sometimes we lie to ourselves about what we are actually doing. Even if someone tells you you do X there's nothing like seeing it on video/

[benos]

I've know what are talking about... here's how it feels to me when it happens... you ever look at the bouncing ball for reading help.. you know like on a karaoke deal where the dot bounces over each word and then lifts off and alights on the next? That's what I remember when it's all working right.

JT

With a dot - that - and also a sharp remembrance of each target's precise shape. The bouncing ball thing was a "peripheral" memory for me.

That didn't come until I'd spent some years with the dot. In the beginning, I tried to look at the dot more. But the more I shot the dot and the more difficult targets I shot with it - I stopped looking for the dot and only looked for the targets. Of course, your are always aware of the dot's precise location - but my transition speed improved and I shot more accurately when I stopped caring about the dot.

be

[JThompson]

I've know what are talking about... here's how it feels to me when it happens... you ever look at the bouncing ball for reading help.. you know like on a karaoke deal where the dot bounces over each word and then lifts off and alights on the next? That's what I remember when it's all working right.

JT

With a dot - that - and also a sharp remembrance of each target's precise shape. The bouncing ball thing was a "peripheral" memory for me.

That didn't come until I'd spent some years with the dot. In the beginning, I tried to look at the dot more. But the more I shot the dot and the more difficult targets I shot with it - I stopped looking for the dot and only looked for the targets. Of course, your are always aware of the dot's precise location - but my transition speed improved and I shot more accurately when I stopped caring about the dot.

be

Interesting, and I think better explains what I meant to say. Check this and see. What I meant to say is my eyes were on the word, in our case the A zone and I'm waiting for the dot to get there. (To pronounce or fire) The dot gets there, but I'm still focused on the word and the next thing I know the dot is moving up again and my eyes are on to the next word where they again wait for the dot to arrive.

I do find that on very long accurate shots I look at the word and then pull my vision back to get the dot hyper clear. this may be a function of my bad eyes to really make the dot crisp, say on a 25yrd head shot. If I look at the word alone and don't pull back I can easily throw a mike.

Edited July 29, 2009 by JThompson

[benos]

Interesting, and I think better explains what I meant to say. Check this and see. What I meant to say is my eyes were on the word, in our case the A zone and I'm waiting for the dot to get there. (To pronounce or fire) The dot gets there, but I'm still focused on the word and the next thing I know the dot is moving up again and my eyes are on to the next word where they again wait for the dot to arrive.

Yes - there ye go. If I would have thought about it a little more I may have understood it like that.

I do find that on very long accurate shots I look at the word and then pull my vision back to get the dot hyper clear. this may be a function of my bad eyes to really make the dot crisp, say on a 25yrd head shot. If I look at the word alone and don't pull back I can easily throw a mike.

I wonder if what's happening there is that maybe the "pulling back" is creating a little pause, which allows you to release the shot a little cleaner.

You might try playing with that in practice (first).

Instead of "pulling back," create a visual pause by telling yourself to see the target even clearer, before you release the shot.

It may or may not improve your long range accuracy, but it did for me.

be

[JThompson]

Interesting, and I think better explains what I meant to say. Check this and see. What I meant to say is my eyes were on the word, in our case the A zone and I'm waiting for the dot to get there. (To pronounce or fire) The dot gets there, but I'm still focused on the word and the next thing I know the dot is moving up again and my eyes are on to the next word where they again wait for the dot to arrive.

Yes - there ye go. If I would have thought about it a little more I may have understood it like that.

I do find that on very long accurate shots I look at the word and then pull my vision back to get the dot hyper clear. this may be a function of my bad eyes to really make the dot crisp, say on a 25yrd head shot. If I look at the word alone and don't pull back I can easily throw a mike.

I wonder if what's happening there is that maybe the "pulling back" is creating a little pause, which allows you to release the shot a little cleaner.

You might try playing with that in practice (first).

Instead of "pulling back," create a visual pause by telling yourself to see the target even clearer, before you release the shot.

It may or may not improve your long range accuracy, but it did for me.

be

I will give it a go when I hit the range tomorrow.

Thanks for your input.

JT