9mm major long. why not?

[skeeter]

with all the talk of shooting 9mm major it's always because the brass is so cheap. well if you are going to use a 1911 type gun why not just load the rounds long enough to get by the BOD's rule. if you were to load it as loong as a super like 40's loaded to 10mm length it wouldn't be a 9x19 anymore it would be a wildcat based on a 9x19 case. because you couldn't shoot it in a stock 9mm it wouldn't fit in the mags.

[BrianH]

I think it's mainly an issue of bullet weight.

It would also depend if they issued a new ruling on bullet weight in major 9, or went by the old rule of a minimum bullet weight of 150 (I think it was) for major.

See, when it was single stack 1911's, major 9 didn't interest very many people because .38 Super was so much easier to set up.  When it became a BIG issue was the advent of the P9, and people were loading major 9 at an OAL of 1.15".  You can't go much heavier than 140, and, of course, most people wanted to shoot 130 jacketed.  So (mainly after Marty Liggins of Accurate Arms through a s**t fit), they passed a rule limiting the bullet weight, and thus limiting major 9 to 150 gr, or an OAL of 1.25".  Something like that....it was a long time ago....

And now that you can get high capacity .38 Supers, once again, not a whole helava lot of reasons to set up a major 9.

So essentially, I'm saying it will all depend on whether or not the BOD invokes a minimum bullet weight over the standard 112 gr. for Open.

[Chriss Grube]

No minimum bullet weight it just has to be 1.250 or greater. Hopefully it will be resovled in the next BOD meeting.

[Duane Thomas]

"if you were to load it as loong as a super like 40's loaded to 10mm length it wouldn't be a 9x19 anymore it would be a wildcat based on a 9x19 case."

It doesn't really work that way. A .40 S&W loaded long is still a .40 S&W, and a 9x19 loaded long is still a 9x19. The overall loaded length is not the important thing as to whether or not it's a 9x19, it's the casing.

[skeeter]

but if i load the ammo so long that i can't use it in stock gun isn't it a wildcat? i mean that i use a 40 glock in uspsa and i always end up with someones 40 loaded for their sti then i'll try to load it in one of my mags and it don't fit so even though the case say 40s&w i can't shoot it out of my glock then it isn't a 40s&w, it's a 40 long, you can use load data that i can't use get more speed if you want or less psi. just how different does it have to be.

(Edited by skeeter at 8:01 pm on April 6, 2002)

[milesahead60]

Brian says, "now that you can get high cap 38 supers..." how do you get high super mags given current regs?  I've been shooting a single stack super in IDPA but would be interested in a high cap except for the unavailability of mags (or the high cost of collecting them.)

Someone enlighten this rookie.

Thanks.

[Carlos]

Couple of notes: Brian is right - bullet weight is generally 147grn for long 9 major because many of the lighter bullets are just too short to meet the OAL - they would barely be in the case (maybe 1mm or so).  As it, I have seen a gunsmith friend's loaded rounds of long 9 major using 147s - about 4/5ths of the bullet is exposed to get to current legal length. They are fragile - you can bend out the bullet with just hand strength because there is very little of the bullet in the case - this is even WITH a heavy crimp.  The gunsmith friend who was shooting these could never get them to work properly in an S_I gun; they would bend during feeding and jam (not to mention that even slight "bending" would probably ruin accuracy). I can't recall which long magazine gun he used as a platform to launch these - they did work though. Needless to say, he carried his rulebook to every match and had lots of explaining to do in order to shoot 9mm major. He gave up and now mostly shoots 9 supercomp. He'd shoot 9 major if it were allowed.

Anyway, the advantages of shooting a 9mm bullet are reduced if you are limited to 147 grn or heavier bullets. Short 9mm major envisions the same minimum bullet weight as currently allowed in open - about 115 grns and any OAL to fit in mags like the Glock. The OALs would be the same as are used currently in 9x21 major and short mag guns like the Glock.

If Accurate Arms would import Vihta Vouri or Vectan powder and sell it under their own name (powder companies do this all the time - I understand Hodgdon imports Clays from Australia) then one could use an "Accurate Arms" powder to safely meet 165 major in 9x19mm at short OAL lengths.  

Perhaps the BOD vote will go through next time.

[BrianH]

miles;

I dunno where people are getting "new" high cap mags....I shoot a P9 with pre-ban mags.

But STI and SVI sure are selling a lot of guns...you'll need to ask someone who owns one.....

[Duane Thomas]

"but if i load the ammo so long that i can't use it in stock gun isn't it a wildcat?"

No. It's just the same old cartridge loaded long. Trust me on this one. You'd have to actually change the dimensions of the cartridge casing for it to no longer be a 9x19.

[BrianH]

.....hence the whole existence of 9X21 in IPSC.  That was just to get around the 9X19 ban....and it could, because it was a totally different cartridge.