Harry Potter Posted June 24, 2009 Share Posted June 24, 2009 (edited) Gentlemen, I have a technical question. Being absolutely fresh in shotgun, I have decided the IPSC Standard Manual division is the one I'd like to shoot. Another decision taken is that I'll go for Remington 870 and here I have faced a dilemma which one to choose? First is 870 Marine Magnum: Remington 870 MM and the other one is wooden furniture 870 Express Magnum: Remington 870 EM My prefference would be Express, because of the vent rib and better aiming option, where it is possible to make a sight modification like this: Visit My Website Also wooden furniture makes it more comfortable and "live", you know what I mean. Like Rob Leatham said, that if you like the gun probably you gonna shoot it better I've found some opinions that Marine has a smoother action, but I guess that it is a matter of puting an oil and maintenance. Any of your help will be greatly appreciated. Saulius IPSC National Team Lithuania DVC Edited June 24, 2009 by Harry Potter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbrowndog Posted June 24, 2009 Share Posted June 24, 2009 Saulius, why did you decide on the 870? Either way, I would prefer using the vent rib, with a aftermarket rear sight arrangement, over plain barrel and rifle sights. My question on the 870 is based strictly on what it takes to get it to be a good, reliable, smooth, easy loading PSG. I WAS an 870 shooter when I started with a pump gun, but very shortly after I switched to a Benelli Nova and have NEVER regretted it. If benelli's are hard to find where you are then OK, go with what you can get. The 870 has a good reputation, but there are better guns out there. trapr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chefcs5 Posted June 24, 2009 Share Posted June 24, 2009 I am kind of the opposite of bigbrowndog there,. I have had an 870 EM since I was 12 so about 18 years. I still hunt and use it for all matches. It has never failed me yet. about 5 years ago i bought a benelli nova. I used it for 1 deer season 1 duck season and 1 match since then my little brother uses it since he doesnt have a gun of his own. I prefer the 870. maybe i didnt use it enough. maybe only 300 rounds through it then decided to switch back. I love my 870 and will keep her till she dies or I do...probably the later On a side note. the beneli was not in anyway a bad gun. just prefer the 870 and it will work for everthing i hunt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Potter Posted June 24, 2009 Author Share Posted June 24, 2009 (edited) I am kind of the opposite of bigbrowndog there,. I have had an 870 EM since I was 12 so about 18 years. I still hunt and use it for all matches. It has never failed me yet. about 5 years ago i bought a benelli nova. I used it for 1 deer season 1 duck season and 1 match since then my little brother uses it since he doesnt have a gun of his own. I prefer the 870. maybe i didnt use it enough. maybe only 300 rounds through it then decided to switch back. I love my 870 and will keep her till she dies or I do...probably the laterOn a side note. the beneli was not in anyway a bad gun. just prefer the 870 and it will work for everthing i hunt Hi, To Bigbrowndog: I am an ex L.E./Military and thus I am more oriented on the hard way proven things. Benellis are really nice shotguns, but the prices of those in Europe are really high. If I would go for the Open/Unlimited division or Standard semi-auto, then I'd go for Benelli for sure. We don't have STD semi-auto here and I hate all the bells and whistles about the Open shotguns (red dot sights, reloaders etc.), that's why I'm looking for allrounder for home defence, hunting, competition shooting... Benelli Nova Pump is ok, but the price is double. To chefcs5: I get your point. Thanks a lot. Remington has a soul and spirit and Benelli for me is more new Generation. Rob Leatham said: "If you like the gun, probably you'll shoot better with it." Now the main question is still Express or Marine? Not too many arguments Edited June 24, 2009 by Harry Potter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbrowndog Posted June 24, 2009 Share Posted June 24, 2009 Saulius, I have no problem with the going to the 870, especially for cost reasons or availability. I also answered your question on what barrel type, other than those reasons the guns should be the same. Both can be nudged along with the same improvements. Chefcs5, I know several hunters that swear by 870's and I am one, when it comes to using a SG and firing it as seldomly as most hunters do the 870 will last a lifetime, Heavy use and firing, do not serve the 870 well. Trapr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Potter Posted June 24, 2009 Author Share Posted June 24, 2009 Saulius, I have no problem with the going to the 870, especially for cost reasons or availability. I also answered your question on what barrel type, other than those reasons the guns should be the same. Both can be nudged along with the same improvements.Chefcs5, I know several hunters that swear by 870's and I am one, when it comes to using a SG and firing it as seldomly as most hunters do the 870 will last a lifetime, Heavy use and firing, do not serve the 870 well. Trapr Thanks Trapr! Your input is greatly appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HS101 Posted June 25, 2009 Share Posted June 25, 2009 Saulius, I have no problem with the going to the 870, especially for cost reasons or availability. I also answered your question on what barrel type, other than those reasons the guns should be the same. Both can be nudged along with the same improvements.Chefcs5, I know several hunters that swear by 870's and I am one, when it comes to using a SG and firing it as seldomly as most hunters do the 870 will last a lifetime, Heavy use and firing, do not serve the 870 well. Trapr Thanks Trapr! Your input is greatly appreciated. I have been debating the whole 870 / Supernova decision. Threads like these help! I have an older 870 wingmaster in 20ga that I love (it was my grandfathers), but I am getting into the 3 gun matches and think I would like to move to a 12ga. Also, I don't want to abuse that gun in competitions... the sentimental value is just too much! I know if I end up going to a lot of 3 gun comps, I will eventually want to get a semi-auto, but for now I just want something to use for my first 3 gun matches and maybe trap/skeet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.E. Kelley Posted June 25, 2009 Share Posted June 25, 2009 There is a huge difference between owning and hunting with a shotgun for many years and shooting a shotgun thousands of rounds a year in a timed competition. A malfunction in the field means you gotta get lunch at Micky D’s. A malfunction at a match might mean you are buying lunch for the match winner! Trapr has a lot of experience with shotguns and the pump shotgun in particular. His vetting of the Nova is based on many years/rounds/matches and is absolutely solid. He might even get me to try a Nova, but for now, 5 years and several thousand rounds in competition I have run a Winchester 1300 with not a single failure. The 870 enjoys a cult-like following but we have access to better choices. Patrick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbrowndog Posted June 25, 2009 Share Posted June 25, 2009 Pat, its only fair........ you and Kurt have got me shooting an M1A, now!!!! Trapr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.E. Kelley Posted June 25, 2009 Share Posted June 25, 2009 Pat, its only fair........ you and Kurt have got me shooting an M1A, now!!!!Trapr Fair like hell, now I am screwed. It was the last piece of the puzzle. I guess I better practice. Best to you mister. Patrick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Potter Posted June 25, 2009 Author Share Posted June 25, 2009 Saulius, I have no problem with the going to the 870, especially for cost reasons or availability. I also answered your question on what barrel type, other than those reasons the guns should be the same. Both can be nudged along with the same improvements.Chefcs5, I know several hunters that swear by 870's and I am one, when it comes to using a SG and firing it as seldomly as most hunters do the 870 will last a lifetime, Heavy use and firing, do not serve the 870 well. Trapr Thanks Trapr! Your input is greatly appreciated. I have been debating the whole 870 / Supernova decision. Threads like these help! I have an older 870 wingmaster in 20ga that I love (it was my grandfathers), but I am getting into the 3 gun matches and think I would like to move to a 12ga. Also, I don't want to abuse that gun in competitions... the sentimental value is just too much! I know if I end up going to a lot of 3 gun comps, I will eventually want to get a semi-auto, but for now I just want something to use for my first 3 gun matches and maybe trap/skeet The sentimantal thing I have is a captured Wehrmacht (nazi German army) officer's pistol, which my grandfather brought from the WWII and that is the thing I have tried and never shoot. I know what you mean. I would have the shotgun, the one like you do, I'd rather use it for home defense and part of home interior design. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Potter Posted June 25, 2009 Author Share Posted June 25, 2009 There is a huge difference between owning and hunting with a shotgun for many years and shooting a shotgun thousands of rounds a year in a timed competition. A malfunction in the field means you gotta get lunch at Micky D’s. A malfunction at a match might mean you are buying lunch for the match winner!Trapr has a lot of experience with shotguns and the pump shotgun in particular. His vetting of the Nova is based on many years/rounds/matches and is absolutely solid. He might even get me to try a Nova, but for now, 5 years and several thousand rounds in competition I have run a Winchester 1300 with not a single failure. The 870 enjoys a cult-like following but we have access to better choices. Patrick Thanks Patrick, I used to shoot Winchester 1300 Defender on my first 2 gun and shotgun matches I have attended. I should say that I did like it. The action is smooth and I did like the feeling of opening itself after shot breaks. My experience is less possitive than yours, because I had some mulfs, with a shorter OAL and I did used to the thing, that production things must feed any type of ammo if it's not chinese:) Access to better choices means for me having an access itself and its a special thing for me, because I was born in the USSR and Lithuania has only 18 years of Independence and we already have a National association of the IPSC since 1997 and shooting it actively since 2000. My main discipline is a pistol and shotgun is just a Nr. 2. I don't want to invest in it too much and I want it to have a its soul, just like M1 Garand or an AK47. I don't care much about Benelli, because I can buy 3 rifles for the price of one shotgun. I gave a promise to myself that I am going to kill animal only when I will have to feed my family:), because I am shooting thousands of rounds every year on the IPSC matches and I have more passion to shoot a timed double A instead... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chefcs5 Posted June 25, 2009 Share Posted June 25, 2009 Well as far as putting a lot of lead through my 870 it has been through every duck, goose, turkey, deer, and pheasant season for 18 years I also shot skeet with it for 4 years as a junior and have used it for various other competition. Im not sayin its the best and the beneli is even a good gun but i still prefer the 870 heck one summer alone i put 1500 rounds through it when i was competing. but as to wich 870 id choose the express if you plan on using it for more than just competition but if its for 3 gun alone id go MM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Potter Posted June 25, 2009 Author Share Posted June 25, 2009 Well as far as putting a lot of lead through my 870 it has been through every duck, goose, turkey, deer, and pheasant season for 18 years I also shot skeet with it for 4 years as a junior and have used it for various other competition. Im not sayin its the best and the beneli is even a good gun but i still prefer the 870 heck one summer alone i put 1500 rounds through it when i was competing. but as to wich 870 id choose the express if you plan on using it for more than just competition but if its for 3 gun alone id go MM Got it. Please provide your argumentation of MM over EM for the 3 gun use? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chefcs5 Posted June 25, 2009 Share Posted June 25, 2009 The only real difference is the Express isn't as well polished and deburred, and has a plastic trigger groups and MIM extractor. The extractor can be replaced, although I've seldom seen a broken 870 extractor, and the plastic trigger group actually has some advantages. It's also just as durable as the compressed, powdered aluminum trigger group on the marine. Also you will save some money on the express even getting the combo wich has the slug barrel included is cheaper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Potter Posted June 25, 2009 Author Share Posted June 25, 2009 The only real difference is the Express isn't as well polished and deburred, and has a plastic trigger groups and MIM extractor.The extractor can be replaced, although I've seldom seen a broken 870 extractor, and the plastic trigger group actually has some advantages. It's also just as durable as the compressed, powdered aluminum trigger group on the marine. Also you will save some money on the express even getting the combo wich has the slug barrel included is cheaper Actually Marine cost less and Express comes with a single barrel. I guess that I should go for the Marine then, because everything else is in the sight and you can always can get used to it. +1 for Marine Magnum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chefcs5 Posted June 25, 2009 Share Posted June 25, 2009 If u find the marine for less then get it. Here at my local gun shop I got the express combo with both barrels for 279$ about a year ago and at the time the marine was 349$ the only reason to get the express is if you do go with the combo. and will use it for hunting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Potter Posted June 25, 2009 Author Share Posted June 25, 2009 If u find the marine for less then get it. Here at my local gun shop I got the express combo with both barrels for 279$ about a year ago and at the time the marine was 349$ the only reason to get the express is if you do go with the combo. and will use it for hunting. Here is my deal: Marine Magnum for 500 Euro and Express for 590 as it is shown on the picture, so I guess I'll go for Marine. Thanks a lot for your help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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