Smith ICORE revolver

[Carmoney]

What's a heeled bullet?

[johnnybravo]

What's a heeled bullet?

My understanding is that it's like the .22 long rifle round. The part of the bullet that tucks into the mouth of the case is a smaller diameter that the main driving bands.

I picked up a 100 rounds of factory 38 Short Colt yesterday, with the intent of shooting them to try out, then reload with my 160 gr rnl. I did some research and found a few sites that indicated you could fire 38 Short Colt thru a 38 or 357 revo. Plus, I've heard it discussed at matches and online.

But, upon closer inspection, the factory bullets have a driving band just outside of the case mouth. It is about .13" in length, and about .380" in diameter. The bullets are precoated, nose and all, with thin layer of lube. I was wondering if these driving bands would cause too much pressure. If they would, I could always pull the bullets, and reload with my regular .358 bullets.

As I was researching yesterday, I found that the 38 Short Colt was used when .36 caliber black powder pistols were converted to fire cartridges. So, I'm figuring if these heeled ( I'm assuming that''s the correct term) bullets were used in a .36 caliber revo barrel, they ought to fire in a modern 38/357. BUT, I would rather err on the side of caution, and find out from someone who has done it before.

Sorry about the drift, but I'm really curious about this.

John

[Tom E]

I picked up a 100 rounds of factory 38 Short Colt yesterday, with the intent of shooting them to try out, then reload with my 160 gr rnl. I did some research and found a few sites that indicated you could fire 38 Short Colt thru a 38 or 357 revo. Plus, I've heard it discussed at matches and online.

But, upon closer inspection, the factory bullets have a driving band just outside of the case mouth. It is about .13" in length, and about .380" in diameter. The bullets are precoated, nose and all, with thin layer of lube. I was wondering if these driving bands would cause too much pressure. If they would, I could always pull the bullets, and reload with my regular .358 bullets.

John

Is the ammo you bought "current" or antiques I thought new production was with normal 357/358 bullets and pretty rare to find "on the shelf". If what you bought is "antique", with the "heeled bullets", I would be a little suspicous of the brass also. Is it a "reproduction" of the original, heeled, 38 short colt for "old" (antique) revolvers? Starline currently makes 38 short colt brass which is literally just short 38 special brass.

Edited April 1, 2009 by Tom E

[johnnybravo]

[

Is the ammo you bought "current" or antiques I thought new production was with normal 357/358 bullets and pretty rare to find "on the shelf". If what you bought is "antique", with the "heeled bullets", I would be a little suspicous of the brass also. Is it a "reproduction" of the original, heeled, 38 short colt for "old" (antique) revolvers? Starline currently makes 38 short colt brass which is literally just short 38 special brass.

It's really old stuff. It's in the old style Remington boxes. Been on the shelf at a small hardware store for years.

[Toolguy]

In the transition from cap and ball to self contained cartridge, everything was rimfire for a short period, and made like a .22

with heeled bullets. 38s were originally actually .380 diameter. The old guns that were chambered for them had .38 diameter

grooves in the barrel, just like a .357 has .357 dia. grooves now. The cylinder had a straight hole to the barrel, not a chamber

and throat like we have now. Then they came up with centerfire cases but kept the heeled bullets, later that evolved into

what we have now. The .22 rimfire is the only one left that is still the same as it started out. You would have to squeeze

those down over .020 to get them through a modern gun. Even with soft lead, that's moving a lot of metal. I would advise

against shooting them. You could pull the bullets and reload them and be fine, assuming the brass is OK.

[johnnybravo]

In the transition from cap and ball to self contained cartridge, everything was rimfire for a short period, and made like a .22

with heeled bullets. 38s were originally actually .380 diameter. The old guns that were chambered for them had .38 diameter

grooves in the barrel, just like a .357 has .357 dia. grooves now. The cylinder had a straight hole to the barrel, not a chamber

and throat like we have now. Then they came up with centerfire cases but kept the heeled bullets, later that evolved into

what we have now. The .22 rimfire is the only one left that is still the same as it started out. You would have to squeeze

those down over .020 to get them through a modern gun. Even with soft lead, that's moving a lot of metal. I would advise

against shooting them. You could pull the bullets and reload them and be fine, assuming the brass is OK.

Thanks. it looks like I'll end up pulling the bullets, and reusing the brass and current primers. It''s an expensive way to get brass, but I wanted the Remington brand brass. The only 38 Short Colt brass I've found for sale so far is Starline. Don't want that, I prefer Remington for my moon clips.