justicentyme Posted March 20, 2009 Share Posted March 20, 2009 Have there been any TDAs used (SSP) in major regional matches that were in the top five finishers in the last five years? Has anyone ever one the Nationals using a TDA? Thanks James Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Thomas Posted March 20, 2009 Share Posted March 20, 2009 Sure. Ernie Langdon has won IDPA Nationals numerous times using a TDA (stands for Traditional Double Action, aka DA/SA, in case anyone out there was wondering), first with a 9mm Beretta 92 in SSP, then with a SIG P220ST .45 in CDP. On the local level (MY local level, anyway), last year SSP at the Washington State IDPA Championships was taken by Emanuel Plotnikov with a 9mm SIG P226. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glshooter Posted March 21, 2009 Share Posted March 21, 2009 I have seen a few shooters do well with double action guns but they are not the norm. Guns with a consistent trigger pull are much easier to shoot IMO. It's a big reason why you don't see many Sigs, HK's, Beretta's, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Thomas Posted March 21, 2009 Share Posted March 21, 2009 Depends on what you mean by "easy to shoot." Yes, in my experience it takes more work to reach a decent level of skill with a DA/SA gun because you have to master two types of trigger pulls, double action for the first shot, single action for all succeeding shots, versus something like a Glock, 1911, etc. that only requires mastering one type of trigger pull. Having said that, once you've put in the time, a DA/SA is just as "easy to shoot" as anything else. It's just that most people don't put in the time. And I say that as someone who used to shoot - and win - matches with a DA/SA 9mm SIG P228. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chills1994 Posted March 21, 2009 Share Posted March 21, 2009 (edited) FWIW... this question is a little... different...as far as SSP goes at Nat's... jeesh... and the top five... really unless you are there at the match it would really be hard to know who was shooting what gun wise if they placed in the top five in SSP at Nat's. The SSP division champ... yeah... it seems all eyes are focused on what the top guy in each division was shooting. But then again, it seems like a lot of those guys are "hired guns" already. But the top 5 for the past 5 years, in SSP??.... when I was learning to shoot the Beretta I went through at least 3 different "phases" with it: 1. good grief, this first DA shot sucks! 2. MAN! this SA trigger pull feels weird, I wish this was a DAO. 3. Ah, now I get it. If you think the DA/SA transition is a handicap, then, yeah, mentally it really is a handicap to you. If you can get beyond the mental tricks of it and all the razing you will get by shooting a NON-Glock or a NON-1911, at a match, you will do just fine. If you like a gun, how it feels in your hands, and have already acquired the muscle memory for how it recoils, I wouldn't go changing horses midstream.... especially to succomb to peer pressure. An often repeated mantra here on this forum is: It's the Indian, not the arrow. Edited March 21, 2009 by Chills1994 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bones Posted March 21, 2009 Share Posted March 21, 2009 I have seen a few shooters do well with double action guns but they are not the norm. Guns with a consistent trigger pull are much easier to shoot IMO. It's a big reason why you don't see many Sigs, HK's, Beretta's, etc. All true Dave. Consider this as another contributor to that data set: Some companies chose to spend money on sponsored shooter programs to promote their product lines. Among those who chose not to sponsor such programs in IDPA are those you listed specifically. I believe any of those factory sponsored professionals who are winning would find ways to win with another product. Here's the thought for the day: Winning isn't normal - losing is. Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rvb Posted March 22, 2009 Share Posted March 22, 2009 (edited) I keep saying I'll switch from my Beretta when I feel it's what is holding me back... still shooting it. Now currently there is nothing coming out of the Beretta factory that appeals to my uspsa/idpa desires, so if my gun goes belly up tomorrow I will be switching platforms. I'm not "loyal" to them, but it's what I shoot. - Pro: shooting DA makes you a better shooter, I believe. - Pro: a gun w/ a hammer makes me feel a little safer at lamr since I can physically hold the hammer down with my thumb. however I am not afraid of striker guns and would shoot one in a heart beat. - Con: It takes some time and dedication to shoot DA/SA well. (or is this a pro?) - Con: I still feel I am a little slower w/ a DA shot on long and/or tight shots out of the holster. Maybe what I could do in 1.0s w/ a single/safe action takes me 1.3-1.5s DA.... no big deal as we're talking like 1 shot per 100. The rest of the time I don't even notice the transition or the DA shot... - Con: a little difficult to make dryfire just like live fire. The result is most dryfiring is in DA. This makes it seem even easier to shoot on match day (or is this a pro?) DA guns have won in the past and will. Look at guys like Olhasso and Langdon and up-commers like Stoeger. I'll add that I'm just a "nobody" in this game and I only shot IDPA Nats once, in '07, and I came in 3rd in ssp w/ a TDA Beretta and finished at or near the top of ssp at some state matches. As with all gear in this game, if you think it will limit you, then it will. You can either move on to something you feel won't limit you or choose to believe it's not an issue. -rvb edit: as for why there aren't more, I think it has more to do w/ marketing than true ease of use. When Langdon was winning w/ Beretta and Beretta was sponsoring matches, you saw a lot more of them on the range. Look at who is sponsoring matches, giving guns away, sponsoring shooters, etc. It makes a difference. Now a lot of those shooters who were shooting Berettas and had Langdon smith on their guns, etc have now moved on to other platforms. -rvb Edited March 22, 2009 by rvb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luis Leon Posted March 26, 2009 Share Posted March 26, 2009 RVB, you wrote: - Con: a little difficult to make dryfire just like live fire. The result is most dryfiring is in DA. This makes it seem even easier to shoot on match day (or is this a pro?) I believe its a pro for me I shoot a CZ75b and do a lot of dry firing. Being steady with the DA trigger pull has immensely helped me when shooting in single action in competition. Many shooters forget that the gun is only DA for that first shot ONLY. best regards, Luis Leon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobMoore Posted March 26, 2009 Share Posted March 26, 2009 (edited) I switched from a 226 to the M&P not to get a "consistent" trigger press (because really its only the first shot, after that its a single action gun), but because the SIG doesn't allow as high a grip on the gun. I think the lack of DA guns in the competitive arena doesn't say as much about the trigger configuration as it does about the design of those guns. Think about the improvements in ergonomics that have come since the design of the Sig P series, Berettas, HKs, and other DA guns. An exception would be the CZ guns, which are relatively popular, and I think backs up my theory that it isn't about the trigger so much as it is the feel of the gun. The other issue is cost. Most of those DA guns run $800 or more. Glocks, XDs, M&Ps.......if you're paying more than $500 you didn't shop around. Edited March 26, 2009 by RobMoore Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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