230 LRN for a 625 with Clays

[No.343]

I'm fairly new to revolver shooting. I tried loading a 230 gr LRN with 3.9gr of Clays to shoot in my 625. It was terrible. I shot a ten inch group at 25 yards. The 230 gr FMJ Zeros I had shot a four inch group. Not only was the group bigger, but it was about four inches to the left. Keep in mind that I'm a lefty. Is there some special magic needed for an accurate lead bullet in a revolver? Do you think a hotter load might help?

[Ray R.]

no.343,

A 10 inch group is definately unacceptable. The 4 inch ain't all that good either. The gun should do better then that.

However, a hotter load probably won't help. Here's what I'd check:

1) muzzle crown-- see that it isn't dinged, and is smooth.

2) cylinder throats. If they're too large (or too small) they can really affect accuracy.

3) forcing cone. Unlikely problem, but you never know....

If the above checks out OK, then I'd look to the bullets followed by the barrel itself. Although it would be damned rare for a 625 to have a bad barrel.

Another thing to remember, is that 45 acp revolvers are definately NOT the accuracy champs of the revolver world. Nice guns (shoot 'em myself, and like them), but because of various things necessary to get an auto cartridge to work in them certain compremises are necessary, like looser chambers and a longer jump for the bullet from the cartridge case to the forcing cone. Still, the gun should at least do around 2.0 to 2.5 inches at 25 yards with a good load.

One other thing, these guns usually require a very HARD cast bullet for best results.

Hope this helps,

Ray

[No.343]

Thanks, Ray. I am also going to mark my cylinders and see if there is any relationship to that. This revo shot Zero, Berry and Ranier jacketed/plated bullets very well. We'll see what happens.

[Ray R.]

No problem, No.343.

A couple of other things I should have mentioned:

In addition to the cylinder throats being too large or small, they can also be of various sizes. Its a possibility, but rare.

Alignment is also a possibility. But if the cylinder is locking up properly, that would be an unusual cause of trouble because S & W usually cuts the forcing cone overly large in these revolvers, so it acts like a bushel basket and "catches" the bullets regradless of "perfect" alignment.

If the gun is shooting other bullets acceptably, then I'd guess the main problem is this particular bullet you're using. I definately like hard cast bullets in revolvers (and especially in 625s). Hard cast bullets "grip" the rifling better.

Many so-called experts insist that soft cast bullets don't lead like hard bullets will, but I haven't found that to be true. A hard cast bullet properly sized and lubed for the particular gun not only leads less, but gives better accuracy.

[earplug]

I'm using a couple of 625-8's with home cast bullets. I'm finding out that larger is better then smaller. 451 won't work, 453 is fine.

The size is more important then the hardness.

Thanks, Ray. I am also going to mark my cylinders and see if there is any relationship to that. This revo shot Zero, Berry and Ranier jacketed/plated bullets very well. We'll see what happens.

[Ray R.]

As a general rule, cast bullets smaller then .452 do not shoot well in 45acp revolvers. Ideally, the following dimentions give the best results:

a] Groove diameter .4505 to .4515.

b] Cylinder throat diameter .4525. (All 6 throats the same).

c] Bullet diameter .4520 to .4525.

d] Cast bullet hard, and with good lube. (i.e. soft and sticky).

Many 45acp revolvers have cylinder throats that are too large, measuring up to .456". Those guns require a larger diameter bullet to match the throat diameter. Also, many (especially older) 45acp revolvers have very shallow lands since they were designed to shoot military hardball. Those guns absolutely demand a very hard cast bullet for accuracy.

New 625's usually have the barrels right, but can have cylinder throats too tight or larger than they should be. If the throats are too tight, they can be reamed to .4525". But if too large, the only solution is a larger diameter cast bullet sized to fit the larger throats.

Jacketed bullets are more forgiving of "out of speck" dimentions, and may actually shoot bullets that are undersize fairly well. But undersize cast bullets will seldom shoot well, and will almost always lead regardless of how hard they are cast.

[Jaxshooter]

I have been using Precision Black bullets in my 625s. I load 4.0 Clays at 1.22 OAL with a 171 PF. They are very accurate. For my 230gr Zero JHP load I use 4.2 Clays @ 1.250 OAL for 171 PF. Your load sounds a little on the light side for a jacketed bullet.

Use a chrono and up your powder a little at a time and check your accuracy then. I have never heard of a 625 that would not shoot the Clays loads with reasonable accuracy.

[No.343]

I loaded two loads and took them to the range. One 3.5 gr of Clays and the other had 4.5 gr of Clays. The 4.5 load was much tighter, but I seemed to have a couple of fliers in every cylinder. The 3.5 load came in nice and tight. Shot a 2.5 inch group off hand. I didn't chrono it, and I'm not sure that it makes major. At least I have a good plinking load with inexpensive bullets.

[Ray R.]

You're probably right-- the 3.5 gr. load will won't make major. Such loads are fun to shoot, though.

Did you check for leading just ahead of the forcing cone with the 4.5 grain load? If there is some build up there, it could be that the bullets are not grabbing the rifling well, and you may need a harder bullet or a different powder.

[Bear23]

Measure your bullets. probably not the right diameter, or way too much crimp.

[johnnybravo]

I'm fairly new to revolver shooting. I tried loading a 230 gr LRN with 3.9gr of Clays to shoot in my 625. It was terrible. I shot a ten inch group at 25 yards. The 230 gr FMJ Zeros I had shot a four inch group. Not only was the group bigger, but it was about four inches to the left. Keep in mind that I'm a lefty. Is there some special magic needed for an accurate lead bullet in a revolver? Do you think a hotter load might help?

1. Major PF is not the end all and be all of revolver division. You might try your minor loads for a while til you get used to revolver. Go for accuracy.

2. If your hits are to the left (as a lefty), you are probably pulling the trigger (to the side). If you're just starting out with revolver, or not too familiar with it, there is a tendency to pull the gun toward your strong side as you press the trigger. That can go away with time spent dry firing and practice time at the range.