147 gr. XTP in 38 super

[Madmark]

I picked up some 147 grain Hornady XTP BTHP at a price I couldn't pass up.  I was shooting 124 gr. in the past. I checked Jeff Maass's page, not many choices for the 147 gr. XTP. I have Accurate #7, HS6, Blue dot, and Clays. I am shooting a Para with a Wilson barrel and 2 port comp. Any pet loads anyone would care to share?

(Edited by Madmark at 11:58 pm on Nov. 4, 2002)

[George]

It is not the same bullet (Cast Lead), but it is a similar load that worked well in a two port super.

Bullet =147 gr. Hard Cast LSWC (sized .357)

Powder = AA#7 8.5gr.

Primer = WW Small Rifle

OAL = 1.250”

Muz. Vel. = 1139 fps avg.

Power Factor = 167.4

(Edited by George at 12:59 am on Nov. 5, 2002)

[Madmark]

That is close to the load I got from the guy who sold me my gear. I dont know how to get the right OAL. It would seem to me that the critical part of the OAL would be how far the bullet sets back in the case. The OAL wouldnt be correct between lead and the XTP, but could I use load data for other brands of 147 grain HP? Would the boat tail on the XTP make a difference?

[Flexmoney]

Madmark,

You likely will want to adjust the OAL so that you get maximum feed reliablilty.  

Try loading some dummy rounds at different lengths and hand cycling them...feeling for any hitches.

Other than that, the longer you can load, the less pressure you should have in the case (normally a good thing to load longer...and safer)

The easiest thing may be to just give Hornady a call and ask their advice?

800-338-3220

(Edited by Flexmoney at 2:42 pm on Nov. 5, 2002)

[BSeevers]

My old para liked 1.255. I would not even consider using AA7. It ruins barrels. It will ruin yours slower as your shooting heavy lead bullets.

[George]

I just checked my load records and found that every super loading that I have used goes from 1.210 to 1.255 in OAL.

These lengths were established by gradually changing the seating die with a test round (no primer & powder,) until optimum magazine length was found for each bullet type (RN@1.210, JHP@1.255 & LSWC@1.250). I went for an eyeball clearance of about .10 for each bullet type in singlestack Gubmint model magazines.

I have never played with these OAL's once I established them, and have never had any problems with them in usage.

Hope this helps.

(Edited by George at 2:46 pm on Nov. 5, 2002)

[Madmark]

Bseevers- Are there any of the powders I have on hand that would be any better? The last (first) loading I had for the 147 gr. XTP was 6.8 gr. of N350 at 1.270 OAL. They chambered well, allthough I shot less than 100 before I ran out of N350. I thought I would experiment with what I have, but I dont want to ruin a barrel in the process. Why is AA7 bad on barrels? Vhit may be the best bet, but it may be a while before I can get more.  As for OAL, I have been running on the long side. 1.260 to 1.270, since I dont have a Chrono and dont want to raise pressures. Hopefully my RO will remember his chrono this weekend, and I can test my loadings. Thanks guys for the replies.  

[George]

I have also heard from various sources that AA7 will erode barrels, but I have not seen a problem from AA7 in a sooper that I run with it.

16lbs of AA7 & about 15,000 rounds later, the Bar-sto barrel still shoots tight and shows minimal/normal throat erosion. About 60% were 147gr lead, the rest were 124gr jacketed. Most of the lead was at 178-180 PF.

I also ran about 20k rounds of 147gr LSWC @ minor PF through a Glock 17L with AA7. The barrel bore/throat still looks and shoots like it's new.

Like I said earlier, I have heard the erosion story but have seen no real evidence of it. Bottom line for me is that nothing really bad is happening to my barrels (not yet anyway).

I would like to actually get some evidence of the problem put in front of me sometime. All I ever hear is "Oh, AA7, that stuff ruins barrels". I have yet to see a barrel that was actually "ruined". If I get another 5-10k rounds on my sooper before it's barrel is "worn out", I would have to say that's about right for a soopcan pushing major (20-25k is all I expected from the barrel in the first place).

(BSEEVERS. I would be very interested in some data/info on this)

Regards,

(Edited by George at 6:26 pm on Nov. 5, 2002)

[BSeevers]

Madmark

I don't have a lot of experience with those others but would say they are not good Super powders since most people don't use them. Blue Dot blew up a lot of guns in the old days but that was before +P brass. Be careful and use a chrono and watch for pressure. Order some VV. Its the best.

George

I personally eroded a barrel with AA7 in around 24,000 rounds 124gr at 175 PF. It will freak you out. Looks like a cat scratched the upper part of the throat and barrel. It is really eaten out and still shot but needed more powder and did not group well. I think you have been protected by shooting heavy lead bullets but it will erode eventually I am sure. If you don't trust me call John Nowlin, George Smith and I haven't talked personally to him about this, Wil Schueman. They would be glad to verify this problem.

I would consider raising your expectations of a barrel. My current gun was made in 95 I think?It had at least 75,000 rounds before barrel replacement this year and most at the 175 PF. I verified since I purchased all bullets from the same supplier that I shot 25,000 this year, 5000+ through the old barrel, so my total Rds estimation on old barrel is quite low(probably closer to 100K but trying to not BS). It still shot ok but I got a good deal on a new barrel and replaced it. When you hold them up side by side it was VERY VERY worn, Not as much throat but rifling was close to being erased compared to new barrel. Looks like it wouldn't shoot at all but it did ok. I credit this to VV powder. I am also a fast shooter and often run 100 rounds through the gun in 10 minutes in July practicing. Probably not a good idea but great to prove the torture resistance of VV powder to barrel wear. I would not run AA7. I am as firm about that as I am about the feeling that Dillion is the only press to buy. I don't have $350 to put a new barrel in every year. Just trying to help someone from having that happen.

[George]

BSeevers

Thanks for the informative response. I was thinking of switching to VV powder for the old stooper anyway since I only have a couple of lbs of AA7 left.

The chrono is still giving me the right numbers with the same charge weights I have always used so I guess now would be the time to switch.

As much as I use the scooper lately, it would probably last a long long time running AA7 anyway :~)

BTW, I quite agree about Dillon. but there will always be a place in my heart for my good old rock chucker.

Thanks again,

(Edited by George at 9:12 pm on Nov. 5, 2002)

[BSeevers]

George

Good luck, come on back to Open Never sell that Rock chucker. Your grandkids will not believe you used to use it.

[George]

BSeevers,

I do prefer to shoot open class, I just use the Glock platform now (that's a whole 'nuther story).

I still use the rock chucker all of the time for my precision rifle loading. Wouldn't think of retiring it.

DVC