Shot Size-pellet Count-weight

[SteveHarris]

Here is something to think about when designing a load. There is a relationship between pellet count, weight and distance to the target. I used to get my trap and 9 shot skeet reloads mixed up so I tried shooting a combo skeet and trap (singles and short yardage) load. I decided to try 1oz of hard 8 1/2s. With this load, my breaks on both skeet and trap really ground up the targets with fewer ‘dusted’ targets in either. I then stopped shooting 9s for skeet and 8s for trap and shot 8 ½ for both. I even accidentally shot my 1oz 8 ½ loads at trap 23 yard handicap and broke a 98.

From this I determined that I got very strong performance with a pellet count in the upper 400’s. The 1 oz 8 ½ averages a 480 pellet count but I make up for pellet count in 28 ga ¾ oz skeet loads with 9s that has about a 420 pellet count. For long yardage trap handicap heavier shot is needed to retain energy enough to break targets at longer ranges. In that case I recommend 8 shot 1 1/8 oz with a 460 pellet. The old standard handicap load of 1 1/8 oz of 7 ½ shot only have a pellet count of 388 and is, in my estimation, too thin a pattern. I’ve shot with some of the greatest trap shooters who shot handicap with 1 1/8 oz 8 shot. Keep all your velocities the same at about 1180 fps or so and you won’t have the mental garbage of trying to adjust your leads. Modern clay targets break much better than the clays of the past and there really isn’t a good argument for 7 ½ shot any longer for trap.

Any thoughts??

[tightloop]

Yes, I have some thoughts.

I like you, have shot 8.5's. Can't say I had much luck with them. When I was loading shotshells, trying for every advantage I could get in Country Shoots, I used to load 1 3/8 grexed 6's for Annie Oakley to good advantage, even loaded 1 1/4oz 10's for skeet, and found it did not carry enough pettet energy to the target for consistent breaks. Lots of dust, though. Loaded many combos, 6's and 8's, 9's and 71/2's, lots of grexed loads.

My opinion of 81/2's is just like the 10's, they do not carry enough pellet energy to give consistent breaks at the longer trap ranges, past 21 yds IMO. I do think trap shooters could shoot 8's farther back than most do, do to the improvements in chokes and oversized barrels; most are now way over .729. Stan Baker was shooting .800 bore stuff in the early 80's. Short shot strings and less deformed pellets are the key.

I finally quit worrying about trying to get an advantage, and now shoot 7 1/2's at almost everything, factory, B&P ammo. 1 1/8th oz of 7 1/2's at 1330, their F2 bullet. You put the pattern on the clay or dove, etc, it breaks or dies.

[Irishlad]

That's a good way to test loads.

Conventional wisdom is 7 1/2's past 40 or so yards, but I've shot 8's which seemed to work well.

8 1/2's may be "splitting hairs" too much to try to get extra shot in the pattern. That's okay if the "extra shot" is in the fringe of the pattern as additional shot usually is not needed in the center. Targets will be 'smoked' with 7/8, 1 oz and 1 1/8 if you "center" the target, but it's the fringe that seperates these loads, i.e. size of effective pattern. Of course the additional shot with cause a darker "inkplot", but no additional hits for looks.

If in doubt I would go to the heavier shot- just because.

The pattern can be thinner as long as it's as large and covers the 30" circle- so to speak.

Modern skeet and trap targets do break easy. I have seen international style targets that were very hard. I have personally seen #10 shot fail to break these harder targets, thereby invalidating the higher shot count theory. Less and bigger was indeed better in this case.

if I had to pick one shot size over all for all sports, it would #8.

Any thing past 40 yards, I would prefer 7 1/2's. If not available, I would over choke for the yardage.

[SteveHarris]

My quest was to find the ideal balance of pellet count, shot size for certain weights of shot. I found that, in terms of a 1 oz load for skeet and short yardage trap that HARD 8 1/2s crushed targets better than any 1 1/8 oz load I'd ever shot. At 24-27 yards, it's true that 1 1/8 oz of 8s or 7 1/2s 'rule'. Try the the 1 oz of 8 /12s at 1150-1200 fps and you'll be in for a real treat - - - I've been shooting that load for 20 years (that's a ton of targets) and I have never been disappointed... it's a real CRUSHER load

(Use only hard shot like West Coast)

[Chris]

Smaller shot = denser pattern = more "smoked" targets. If you are going for the "smoked" effect every time, you can shoot steel and get a lot more pellets for the same 1oz shot charge.

But I've watched professional shooters "smoke" every target with 20ga and 28ga guns using factory loads. 28ga is only 5/8oz of #9.

[tightloop]

At all the ranges near me, it is forbidden to shoot steel.

I don't know what the pellet energy required to crack or break a clay target, but I would think something about 1.5 ft lbs. You don't want to be on the short side of that figure or all you get is dust and the scorer yells, Lost bird. If you are close, yes, denser is better and you can get away with smaller shot. However, I have shot skeet with 1 1/8th oz of 10's and it did not break all that I dusted.

Pro's dust targets with small bore stuff with center pattern hits and tighter choke. The average guy can't do that all the time.

[SteveHarris]

It isn’t an issue of any one of the factors of shot size, pellet energy or pellet count. However, there are loads that do archive ‘the magic balance’ that gives optimum uniform patterns that really breaks targets. I was just trying to pass along my ‘real world’ tried and true 12 ga ‘target crusher load’ of 1oz of 8 ½ of “EXTRA HARD” lead shot at 1150 to 1200 fps. (I’ve found Clays to give the softest recoil and an incredibly clean burn.)

You should find this load breaks more targets than the ‘standard’ 1 1/8 oz loads of either 8 or 7 ½ shot. Also, the lighter recoil will help you finish stronger in tournaments.

PULL !!!

[tightloop]

Steve

If I still loaded for shotgun, I would try some of your loads. Gave up loading for shotgun 'cause I can buy ammo cheaper than I can make it. It is an interesting concept that you put forth, and I am sure with plenty of field experience to prove your theory. Not all of the time, but most of the time, just like in body building; a good big one will beat a good little one. I shoot big ones for just that reason. B&P F2's, 7 1/2's at 1330fps, although toward the end of the round, I sometimes long for something a little less macho.