Carlos Posted July 30, 2003 Share Posted July 30, 2003 First, my experience to date: some non-IPSC shooting friends asked for my help in developing a load for their Glock 17C or "compensated". This glock comes from the factory with 2 long sid-by-side ports (similar to those done by the MagnaPort company) through the top of the 5" barrel. There is no compensator, just 2 ports. They are seeking a minor load for GSSF & steel. To that end, I loaded up some Montana 115 JHPs - the lightest thing I had on hand, over super slow V V N105. There was no data on the site for this powder and the 9x19. However, there was data for the 9x21 using a 115 XTP and N105. The OAL was 1.160. I know generally Glocks take a max of 1.155 but I tried 1.160 and it seemes to work OK, though load was quite compressed. Instead of the max load of N105 (listed as well over 1300FPS) I backed off by .2 grains I think the max was X.8 grns and I loaded X.6 grns. I know in open, the top dogs often go well beyond 165 PF to get the gun flat. I did not want to wimp out on the load as that would not take advantage of the ports. In my regular 17, this load was quite unpleasant! Primers were a bit flat but not severely so. Lots of blast and a very sharp recoil. Next, I only had a 19C on hand so I tried that. It blasted so much crap off the cieling tiles that it seemed to snow after every shot! Really blew back my hair too. Less flip though. I imaging it would work the same in a 17C. Still, I think my non-open gun shooting friends are going to complain about the blast the rear-ward recoil over a whimpy load (that does nothing w/ the ports). I doubt I found the "wonder load" for a 17C. Now, question: What load will really work the ports? They have the gun and access to powders from N310 up to N105. Plenty of 115s. For their purpose of shooting in GSSF, I can't really use advice like "go buy an SV" or "convert it to .38 sup" - we are trying to make this work through a tailored load. I went the way of very high PF but a 125 PF load would also suit their purposes - only thing is the light stuff does not seem to work the ports at all (shoots the same as a regular 17). Anyone have some advice? Thoughts? Ideas? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shred Posted July 30, 2003 Share Posted July 30, 2003 For GSSF, won't the ports put you into 'Unlimited'? Most GSSF-ers seem to go with light loads and skip the comp. GSSF is so accuracy-biased that quick return-from-recoil isn't terribly important IMHO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fireglock Posted July 30, 2003 Share Posted July 30, 2003 For GSSF, won't the ports put you into 'Unlimited'? Most GSSF-ers seem to go with light loads and skip the comp. GSSF is so accuracy-biased that quick return-from-recoil isn't terribly important IMHO. You can shoot the 17C in Competition class. You're right that accuracy is important in GSSF but to think quick follow up shots aren't important is off the mark. Time is important in any competition. Most folks do go for light loads for GSSF. The 24C responds well to hot loads, I'm not familiar with the other C models. Your friends might want to consider shooting with a 17 barrel and shooting in AmCiv, more opportunites to win. They can then put the C barrel back in or continue shooting the 17 barrel for Competition Class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlos Posted July 31, 2003 Author Share Posted July 31, 2003 FireGlock: Yeah, I am starting to think that the C ports are doing so little to reduce flip that for GSSF, these guys are better off w/ 120 powerfactor loads & just ignore the ports altogether. These guys shoot 3 or 4 GSSF classes - they are WAY into GSSF! (they have just recently discovered IPSC). I realize there are 2 very different ways to reduce flip - 1) light bullets going slow at low pressure light a light steel challenge load or 2) light bullets going very very fast to work the ports (and comp like an open IPSC gun) only there is no comp on the 17C. There is another site called GlockTalk.com & Dale Rhea recently chimed in over there w/ his favorite Glock load (he does not mention which gun) - I believe he mentioned a 124 Montana at 120 PF. He seems to have gone the steel challenge load route. Dale is an accomplished USPSA/IPSC shooter so its no wonder he is top dog in GSSF. I guese the 17C ports are just too small to work in competition. Thanks for the heads up on the 24C - talk about ports!! I am considering one of these just for fun since its capacity limited for competition use in IPSC/USPSA - but I think I'd have much better luck keeping a 24C flat w/ light fast bullets & slow powder. Will keep at it & tell you what I discover. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrett Posted July 31, 2003 Share Posted July 31, 2003 Just ports alone don't do as much to reduce recoil. What really does the work is the baffles in the comp when the gasses slam into them. The ports are just an added plus. If you get a chance, try shooting a gun with a silencer on it. These have many baffles inside them but no ports. They make excellent comps (without all the blast). Your friend would be better off to work up a wimp load as if he were shooting a limited gun. The 9mm has almost no recoil anyway. He could work up a load that would work the gas ports better, but it would increase his overall recoil to greater than what a light load would and would end up hurting his shot-to-shot time. I've managed to win guns at GSSF just shooting the WalMart 9mm value-pack stuff. It's pretty light as far as recoil goes. If you want to go lighter, work up a load that your limited gun likes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fireglock Posted July 31, 2003 Share Posted July 31, 2003 I use 147 gr Zeros with a light load of VV N330, 4.0. It's a cupcake, accurate and functions the gun just fine. I've graduated to Master in GSSF so I can only shoot two classes but the N330 load works well in my 17 and 17L. It wouldn't do you any good in USPSA but it works great in GSSF. Then again the guy that's currently hot for low scores in Unlimited, Tony Clemens uses Winchester USA 115gr and is shooting in the low 40s. Just when I think I've found an answer......along comes Tony! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Custom Glock Racing Posted July 31, 2003 Share Posted July 31, 2003 A light fast bullet will be most efective with the ports. Powder speed wont make a huge difference but slow would be a bit better. I use Zero 108gr JSP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted July 31, 2003 Share Posted July 31, 2003 Matt, Do you know (off hand) if those 108's are allowed in Steel Challenge too? (Might have to try some...or talk my load experimenting buddy into it. ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlos Posted July 31, 2003 Author Share Posted July 31, 2003 Zero 108 - perhaps that or the lighter .355s for .380 (88 &90 grn) might be the ticket for low recoil GSSF ammo. The complaint from my friends was: "using value pack or blazer 115, the competition 17C w/ a red dot does not seem any faster than a regular 17 w/ same ammo - can you improve on it?" I set about building a load to work the ports- power factor be damned. Maybe the answer is in 88s , 90s or 108s at a lower PF. Will give it a try. Thanks for the thoughts on this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted July 31, 2003 Share Posted July 31, 2003 Carlos, If you come up with anything other than "those ports are worthless" then be sure to let us know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Custom Glock Racing Posted August 1, 2003 Share Posted August 1, 2003 Yes 108s are legal for the challenge, I shot them last year. I have seen some folks using 90gr there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted August 1, 2003 Share Posted August 1, 2003 Yes 108s are legal for the challenge, I shot them last year. I have seen some folks using 90gr there. Cool. Thanks. I'll have to get a box of them next time I order. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Custom Glock Racing Posted August 1, 2003 Share Posted August 1, 2003 I picked up 8000 yesterday. Gotta start practicing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Scientist Posted August 10, 2003 Share Posted August 10, 2003 Carlos, When the power factor was droped a few years ago in Ipsc the trend was in lighter bullets to try and keep the presure levels up to work the comp better. It was found that the guns were more snappy and not as desirable. With my race gun I have tried going to slower and slower powder at a reduced power factor . The gun was flater but thru my timing off. I found my self waiting on the gun a bit and was actualy slower. I switched back to major loads for every thing and found that staying with one thing and practicing alot with it was the trick for me. That is not to say that with a lot of practice I wouldent get the timing down and end up faster in steel and GSSF matches . What alot of the top shooters tell me is that get used to the gun and shoot it alot . give your self alot of time to adjust to the gun after a change . They tell me they dont change that often just shoot more. I got a chance to shoot with Max Michel for a couple of days Two weeks ago and he was telling me the army desides there load and buys in lots of 100000 rounds That forces him to learn to shoot the way the gun reacts He thinks its more what ya get used to and the gun becoming part of you. Johnnie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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