Vince Pinto Posted July 16, 2003 Share Posted July 16, 2003 Hi guys, Since the four (4) Final Draft Rulebooks have already been posted to the USPSA Member's page, I thought it only fair to also make them available to BE Forum members, who otherwise may not have access. I've uploaded them here, where you'll also see photos of the Handgun, Shotgun and Rifle Sub-Committee Chairman Feel free to dowload whatever interests you, but I'd prefer to only respond to questions about the Handgun or Tournament Rules. And please remember that these rules are only Final Drafts - they will only take effect on 1 January 2004 provided they are adopted by the IPSC General Assembly in Italy next month. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vluc Posted July 16, 2003 Share Posted July 16, 2003 I've uploaded them here, where you'll also see photos of the Handgun, Shotgun and Rifle Sub-Committee Chairman Ah, so now we know the face of the man behind the mask.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Beverley Posted July 16, 2003 Share Posted July 16, 2003 Hi All I constantly monitor the Forums and will be happy to help with queries regarding Shotgun matters. I'm sure either Vince or myself will be happy to forward any queries regarding the Rifle rules to the Chairman of the Rifle committee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lynn jones Posted July 16, 2003 Share Posted July 16, 2003 hi vince, good job on the draft. this is the IPSC rule book. how close will this match up with the USPSA version? or what will be the differences, if any? lynn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Detlef Posted July 16, 2003 Share Posted July 16, 2003 lynn, I assume this will be up to USPSA. First, the IPSC GA needs to adopt the new rules. Then (historically, this is how it worked) USPSA will go through them and make changes that they see fit/necessary for the U.S., then the USPSA BOD needs to adopt the new IPSC rules with USPSA changes as the new USPSA rule book. Don't hold your breath... This time there is probably a better chance of minimizong differences than ever because USPSA representatives were active in drafting the new IPSC rules... My personal forecast is that the 10rd limits will not be dropped from USPSA rules where they exist now, nor will IPSC rules ever incorporate this North American ideosyncracy. The GCHDbang difference is gone, good. Now if they could just make Limited/Standard and Production division more similar. --Detlef Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lynn jones Posted July 16, 2003 Share Posted July 16, 2003 Now if they could just make Limited/Standard and Production division more similar this is what i was interested in finding out. lynn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Detlef Posted July 16, 2003 Share Posted July 16, 2003 in Production there still are substantial differences between USPSA and IPSC. Bottom line is that almost no gun modifications are permitted in IPSC, while lotsa stuff is allowed by USPSA, and that there's a "list" in IPSC while there is a weight-added limit in USPSA. Standard has just been made simpler in the rules draft, and the differences between IPSC Standard and USPSA Limited have already been minor (holster position and the box rule with mag inserted). So...Production is where there really is a need for action, and it's pretty much up to USPSA now to bing their division in line with IPSC's. Optimally, we can hope for adoption of IPSC Prod with i) 10rd mag capacity limit and ii) no barrel length limit, but i don't even think we will get that far... But let's also remember, Sevigny didn't have a problem with all of this.... --Detlef Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Pinto Posted July 16, 2003 Author Share Posted July 16, 2003 Hi guys, Obviously I cannot speak for the USPSA but, given the amount of US participation on the various committees, I would be very disappointed if the body (Chapters 1 to 12) of the Handgun rulebook was not adopted verbatim by the USPSA. However the Divisions are another matter entirely. While we certainly had frank, constructive and in-depth discussions, and examined ways to merge or otherwise deal with them, we mutually agreed this would not be a key priority for now. Of course in some cases, such as Open, the only difference is the minimum bullet weight for Major (120 vs 112 grains). On the other hand, as Detlef points out, the USPSA version of Production Division is significantly different from the global version. And again, as Detlef says, David Sevigny became IPSC Production Division World Champion by complying with IPSC rules! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GvU Posted July 17, 2003 Share Posted July 17, 2003 Vince, One point of attention. The dimensions on the PP's are not very "readable" not even at 400%. On the Equipment Position, is that in a natural standing relaxed position? Who deternines what that position is. It looks more "defined" than the "description" in the present rulebook, but this kind of looks like nothing may "pass" your ears (to the front). I guess some will try to change there posture. (front mounted ears?) Would a(n additional) top view not be more appropriate / more informative? I do think it has merits! And I can read the picture (cannot understand latin )! Ii's a good start anyway! Were are the contents and index? (saved for the approved version?) John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skywalker Posted July 17, 2003 Share Posted July 17, 2003 Good work Vince and all the committees, I especially like the fact that now in Handgun rules, appendix C1, point 7 specifically deals with all possible cases during calibration test. In previuos Rules 14, actual points 7c and 7d were not explicitly stated, and I had more than a theoretical discussion with ROs on this matter (someone incredibly stated that after a shot outside the calibration zone, the calibration officer had to reshoot the popper in the proper location ). P.S. where have I already seen that green martian posing for equipment position? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcoliver Posted July 17, 2003 Share Posted July 17, 2003 Hmmm...Rule 8.7.4 means one cannot hold a mag while taking sight pictures eh? Not that I'm still doing it though.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Pinto Posted July 17, 2003 Author Share Posted July 17, 2003 GvU, Hmmm. You don't understand Latin and they let you shoot IPSC? I must complain to Kees G. Yes, the dimensions of the poppers are indeed small and we're organising new diagrams (and others to replace the Martians), but they couldn't be done it time. And, yes, the contents and index (and a few other minor pages like the back cover) will be updated after the rules have been adopted. Luca, Yes, I'm very happy with Appendix C1 too. By the way, I'm sure it's a coincidence, but the Martian's name is Luca Brazzi but soon he will be "sleeping with the fishes" (nobody messes with the Corleone family and gets away with it) McOliver, Yes, you can make "Bang Bang" noises and yell "Patay Ka" while pointing your fingers, but nothing in your hands. As I'm sure you've realised, holding a magazine does not help your sight picture unless you actually stick a sight on top of it, and we didn't want any loopholes for Tricky Dicky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcoliver Posted July 18, 2003 Share Posted July 18, 2003 McOliver,Yes, you can make "Bang Bang" noises and yell "Patay Ka" while pointing your fingers, but nothing in your hands. As I'm sure you've realised, holding a magazine does not help your sight picture unless you actually stick a sight on top of it, and we didn't want any loopholes for Tricky Dicky. LOL! No, I don't yell at targets in the walk-through...maybe after shooting them and missed. And you're right, a mag in the hand in the walk-through doesn't seem to make my shooting the COF any better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skywalker Posted July 18, 2003 Share Posted July 18, 2003 the Martian's name is Luca Brazzi but soon he will be "sleeping with the fishes" (nobody messes with the Corleone family and gets away with it) I know this stuff (at least mafia was our country's best known and exported product), and the fact that the drawing is labelled temporary; this is the main reason I use a nickname! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GvU Posted July 18, 2003 Share Posted July 18, 2003 Vince, English is a problem to. (Almost any) question..... Answer: Yes (Almost any) question......Answer: Yes etc. Rangemaster, H E L P!!!!!! And they let me nROi as well, go figure! I do find this problem though at some of the (international) matches. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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