John Dunn Posted July 13, 2003 Share Posted July 13, 2003 Was an RO at this last year. Shooting it with Bonedaddy this year. Spoke to Dave Lauck today and he says there are still some openings. Very high KAF. Match info here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam Posted August 5, 2003 Share Posted August 5, 2003 Just filling out the liability waver for this one gave me a mild adreanaline rush. The "bear, mountain lion, rattlesnake" clause is a first for me as far as I can remember. I'm much more concerned that I'll run out of water and they won't find my dry bleached bones until spring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhino Posted August 6, 2003 Share Posted August 6, 2003 Would they let me use a combination of a 4-wheeler, a Chinook, and whatever else I need to get from point to point? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Dunn Posted August 6, 2003 Author Share Posted August 6, 2003 Sorry Rhino, only LPCs (leather personnel carriers) allowed. After practicing with Sam this weekend, I think we could be contenders for a top ten finish, provided I could take a 4-wheeler from point to point! But three days of shooting with great guys, hanging out with Bonedaddy, shooting steel while hiking the hills. Can't worry too much about placement. I had a good time ROing last year and never fired a shot. Thread drift: Sam and I need a team name. Suggestions are welcome. Some that have been suggested include: The Mighty Smiters Team Random Dispersion (this is my current favorite, reflects my ability ) Brownian Motion Shooting Team (for all you Biology majors out there) The Fist of God (after a book about a BIG gun) Team Tactical Pants (my wife's vote) Let's hear some name ideas! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam Posted August 6, 2003 Share Posted August 6, 2003 Team Random Dispersion - I like it! Much more cerebral than "The Pretenders", but still captures the same self deprecating humor. (as long as they don't call us TuRD.) Team Tactical Pants? Nice........ but not very distinctive. I mean, won't everybody will be wearing "tactical pants"? "Hey Bubba, does this Realtree pattern make my butt look fat?" Anyway, I hope she will still have her sense of humor after putting up with me for three days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bret Heidkamp Posted August 15, 2003 Share Posted August 15, 2003 I'll be there... can't believe I got talked into doing it again!! Lost 3 toenails last year (ouch!!) and had heel blisters the size of silver dollars. Serves me right for not using the boots I wore for over a year. Dumb! Some of our shooting buddies got 3rd overall and are returning this year too. We ended up down the list mid-pack (embarrasing, actually) due to some problems on the long range rifle course (almost got passed by the AD guy in the next paragraph, which would have ended our day due to the rules). It's a great match but with kinda odd rules (one guy AD'd with a rifle on the standards into the dirt in front of us and didn't get DQ'd from the match, just the stage). Don't get the impression it's not safe, it is, guns are carried cold, etc. Just not as strict as USPSA which is what I'm used to... See ya there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhino Posted August 15, 2003 Share Posted August 15, 2003 You guys better watch out . . . I've been walking almost every day and now I can go a mile on flat pavement without much trouble at all. If I can improve that by about ten times including hills and rough terrain, I'll be ready. Then I'll just have to learn how to shoot a rifle in the meantime and I'll be a force! Good luck to all of you guys! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam Posted August 15, 2003 Share Posted August 15, 2003 Bret, you lost 3 toenails? Yikes, that had to hurt! This will be my first time to compete in such a demanding (damaging?) environment. I'll just try not to be the A\D guy, or the got DQ'ed guy for that matter..........or the ran out of water guy.........or the old guy who died from heat stroke.......or the poor SOB who didn't hear the rattler...... Come to think of it your "down the list mid-pack" finish sounds pretty studly to me. I look forward to seeing you there! Rhino, you sound about as ready to do this as I am. Fortunately, I have inside knowledge that there will be at least one medical doctor in attendance. And the match is only about 2 hours from my house, in case my wife has to perform an SAR mission on my ass. I figure my chances of living to tell about this are as high as 65 or maybe even 70%. Like John said, the KAF is very high! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Dunn Posted August 15, 2003 Author Share Posted August 15, 2003 Bret, Were you on the team where the AR fell apart? I was ROing a team at the match last year and we get to a firing point on the long range course where there are 7 or 8 swinging plates for the carbine man. The guy (who hadn't missed a single carbine target to that point) starts missing the yargets by feet, left, right, high, low. Checks the scope mounts and scope, everything is solid. After burning through several mags and ultimately getting the majority of the hits we move on. Back at the finish line the guy shows me his AR-15 barrel, he could move it a quarter inch in any direction in the free float hand guard. Completely disassembled it with his fingers. Felt bad for the guy, hope it wasn't you, if it was, I know you're gonna do a lot better this year. Another shooter had the buttstock assembly on his AR come apart on the obstacle course. Wire your stuff tight for this one guys! Sam, I heard that guy is a quack. Wouldn't count on him for much! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhino Posted August 16, 2003 Share Posted August 16, 2003 Rhino, you sound about as ready to do this as I am. Fortunately, I have inside knowledge that there will be at least one medical doctor in attendance. And the match is only about 2 hours from my house, in case my wife has to perform an SAR mission on my ass. I figure my chances of living to tell about this are as high as 65 or maybe even 70%. Like John said, the KAF is very high! Yeah! I figure my survivability at about 8% right now (that's being generous). Plus I don't shoot a rifle very well. I'd be the fat guy who fell and couldn't get back up! I'll keep training, though . . . and along the way, it should help the rest of my life too. Imagine that! HAHA! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricW Posted August 16, 2003 Share Posted August 16, 2003 Lost 3 toenails last year (ouch!!) and had heel blisters the size of silver dollars. Holy crap! How far do they have you guys dragging your rifles? Is this the one that was shown on TV on OLN? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Dunn Posted August 16, 2003 Author Share Posted August 16, 2003 The long range course last year was around 4 miles I believe. Lots of hills. Nothing like getting to the the top of Heart Attack Hill and finding a firing point with some long range targets to engage. The Gulley course is under 2 miles, but has some butt-kicking hills as well. Lots of small partially hidden targets that can't be engaged prone due to high grass, etc. Nothing like shooting a stage that is measured in hours, rather than seconds. Don't know about the TV coverage. I do know that Paladin Press had a video crew out there last year taping the match, and were going to make a tape for sale. Don't know what happened to that project. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bret Heidkamp Posted August 19, 2003 Share Posted August 19, 2003 John, No that wasn't us with the AR problems. There were multiple times where the AR got super hot, however, so if you care about your barrel, borrow a friend's gun. This year will be harder on the AR barrels as 2 hits on each steel are required. I think I missed about 2 times the entire match and that was due to breathing too hard. The AR targets are very easy as they were only out to about 300 on full poppers and closer on the smaller plates. The long range stuff is much harder, and really makes the match results. Thankfully, that's my partner's job. Anybody going to the match will be able to find us by my partner's rifle - 28" Hart full profile barrel on a camo McMillan stock - to say it stands out from the rest of the guns in the rack is an understatement. I'm bringing my 16" AR this year just for the lighter weight. The toenail thing was my own stupidity. Hadn't worn those boots in about a year and the leather shrunk so they were too tight. Didn't feel a thing until I took them off. Then I actually pay attention to my partner that says "why don't you soak them in epsom salts tonight?" "That should help." So, as out of it as I am, we truck off to WalMart and buy some epsom salts. I fail to notice the keyword in the whole thing --- SALT. The pain of soaking in this caustic solution was, well, excruciating. "Is it supposed to foam up like this when you put your feet in?" I asked between gasps. "Yeah, that means it's working." was the response. I didn't hear the chuckle coming from the other side of the hotel room. I'm still trying to figure out a good payback... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bret Heidkamp Posted August 28, 2003 Share Posted August 28, 2003 So now that it's over... The match was alot of fun. If you haven't done this one you really need to try it out. Good prize table too. 3 custom rifles... unfortunately I didn't bring one home.... We finished 4th overall, and it was by the seat of our pants. Shot terrible the first two days, then had a great run on the last field course which happened to be the biggest point value. Two of the stages were essentially the same as last year with the addition of another new field course. Comments - John and Sam? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Dunn Posted August 28, 2003 Author Share Posted August 28, 2003 Sam and I placed 7th, which was respectable for some serious problems. The majority of the points available, by far, are from the long range targets. My .300 Ultramag went from being a tack-driver to shooting 3-4 inch groups at 200 yds. Cleaning with JB bore paste and Sweets down to bare barrel didn't seem to improve things at all. I've probably got 1,000 rounds through that barrel, and I think it's shot out. I'm going to have my spare barrel screwed on, and Sam has a friend who can borescope the offending tube, and we'll see what's what. Sam's AR started doubling despite loctiting the trigger adjustments, so we switched to a back-up. That didn't really hurt our score, but was something else to worry about. We got lost on the Arvada course. The highlight of the match for me was the gully course. This was a 1.5 hour course with hundreds of steel pistol and rifle targets strung out over a 1.5 mile course culminating in a shoothouse roughly the size of a football field. It probably takes a minimum of 200 pistol rounds just to shoot the shoothouse. If you can't have fun doing that, you probably just can't have fun. I haven't been to a lot of big matches, but I thought the prize table was great. Easily got back my entry fee, plus. The most generous sponsor was Jeff Wemmer, President and CEO of Spec.-Ops (Spec ops), he gave away a vast amount of ultracool gear. I got a pack and a bunch of pouches that rock! I'll be back for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zak Smith Posted August 28, 2003 Share Posted August 28, 2003 Are results posted anywhere? -z Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhino Posted August 28, 2003 Share Posted August 28, 2003 Good going, survivors! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam Posted August 30, 2003 Share Posted August 30, 2003 This match was too real! No wonder they call it the "proving ground". You can really tear stuff up out there. Bret, congratulations to you and your pard for finishing better than us! I trust all your toe nails are intact? I can't say enough good things about Dave Lauck, Jeff W. & Spec Ops, the R/Os and everyone I met at the match. It was the most fun I ever had at any match, any time, any where. In the final analysis I say: There is absolutely no point in crossing the finish line with any extra water or ammo. Best line overheard at the match. (When somebody pointed out to the MD that there were 3 BGs with paint ball guns hiding in the shoot house instead of the 2 we were told about at the shooters meeting.) "Yeah,.....your intel was bad. " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Dunn Posted August 30, 2003 Author Share Posted August 30, 2003 Sam mentioned after shooting the gully course, that at most major USPSA matches you are going to spend about 3 minutes "in the zone" actually shooting. After about 90 minutes of essentially non-stop humping, target detection and shooting...all I can say is that we were pumped for some time. Another word of advice: IF you can swing it, get Sam for a partner. He was down zero for that shoothouse with the billion targets! Didn't club me with his AR when I was missing the LR targets. Has a great attitude and a wealth of knowledge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam Posted September 1, 2003 Share Posted September 1, 2003 I'm kinda thinking Team Random could be real dangerous next year with everything we learned this year. But you gotta show me how to do that thing where you mow down the tiny carbine targets "off hand" while your breathing like a charging moose. I been to three goat ropin's and two county fairs and I ain't never seen anything like that. That gully course was more shootin and scootin than I got in the last three years of USPSA and IDPA combined. That's like 540 ten-second stages run end to end. First time I ever burned my hand at "unload and show clear". Gotta love it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bret Heidkamp Posted September 2, 2003 Share Posted September 2, 2003 Sam, yup toenails are intact this year, thank GOD !! I really wasn't looking forward to that again. The shoothouse, gully course, and Bambi courses were pretty much the same as last year - except last year it wasn't IDPA targets in the shoothouse, we had more time on the gully course, and misses with the AR didn't count. Bambi was the same - alot of the targets on both Bambi and the gully didn't even move from last year. Shooting an open gun was a gas in the shoothouse - although I had more fun last year. The fun part this year was having my partner mess with me in the gully - (for the people that didn't shoot this, there is a rule in the gully course that if you spot a target you have to shoot it from where you saw it) by saying "hey Bret, I think there's a target between those trees" of course, it was always at least 50 yards away! This was followed by snickering and me telling him to only talk to me if I'm about to PASS a target... (another rule is if you pass the 180 on a target, you cannot back up... it's treated as a missed target) Glad you guys had a fun time. Here is a rundown on what the courses were for those people following this thread that didn't get to shoot it (does anybody really care.... oh well, here goes) 1. Arvada - 8" plates for the long range gun hung from rubber belting from 350 to about 650 yards. Poppers for the AR from 180 to 350 yards. 2 shots on each, misses count. + 40 per hit for the LR gun, + 10 per hit for the AR, -20 for misses. Approx. 40 rounds LR, 50 rounds AR. About a 2 1/2 mile hike. 2. Gully - LR gun stays out of this. One shooter shoots pistol, one AR. You both "hunt" for targets through the uphill gully. All steel until the shoothouse. About 380 rounds pistol, and 260 for the AR. All targets are fairly close range. Misses do not count. Only 1 point per hit for both. Max 2 hits per target. (Steel falls in the shoothouse, and counts for 2 pts.) About 3 miles. 3. Bambi - the long course. About 4 to 4 1/2 miles, uphill both ways. LR targets out to 980 yds. AR from 100 to 350 yds. LR targets are all poppers (US and full size). AR targets are belted small plates, USP, PP. About 50 rds. LR and 60 rds AR, with 20 rds. pistol on one shoot area. Process is: hike until you are sweaty and out of breath, see a fire point as indicated by a ribboned stake in the ground, and your RO waiting for you (they get to ride 4-wheelers), drop to prone, shoot and get out of there. It's a must-do match. I just would really like it if the targets were in different places next year, although I realize terrain dictates where they must be to some extent. My ITRC partner and I are considering doing a version of this in Montana - although making people hike sounds cool, it limits the number of entrants just due to the intimidation factor. We're thinking of two classes with 2 divisions: hunting rifle (out to 500 yds) and tactical rifle (out to 1,000) the divisions being: hike / ride. Targets would be mostly the belted plates as they seemed to work really well. There wouldn't be any short range AR stuff at all - this would be a hunting season warm-up / long range shoot only. You would be able to shoot your hunting rig and the goal is to just have fun. Also, people would squad in larger groups (such as 6) to avoid the backlog (I've only shot the ITRC twice, and both times we were badly delayed in our start time... sometimes just due to an RO shortage... anywhere from 1 1/2 hours last year to 3 1/2 hours at the worst this year on Bambi). It would be a one day (or two day, max) event. Comments? Ideas? Probably couldn't do a prize table but would be able to keep the match fee around $40 to $50 bucks and have big trophies. The steel for this is very costly, apparently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhino Posted September 2, 2003 Share Posted September 2, 2003 380 rounds of pistol on ONE STAGE and it's a RIFLE match??!! 260 for the AR on the same stage?!! Do you get to refit with ammo and supplies between stages, or is it some kind of insane deal where you have to carry it all with you the whole time? You guys know how to have fun. You're all insane , but you have fun! The idea of a similar match where you can ride appeals a lot more to me! We Chairborne Rangers (hoo-ah!) would be a lot more likely to give it a try. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Dunn Posted September 2, 2003 Author Share Posted September 2, 2003 You can resupply between stages, but ammo management is still a big part of the gully course. I missed some of Sam's shooting in the shoothouse because I was stuffing mags as fast as I could. Bret, I'd be interested in your match, but probably couldn't do it this year. I did Area 1, MGM, ITRC, and the Infinity Open is coming up. My wife has been very understanding....so far. Get the idea that another match may push her over the edge. Sounds like a lot of fun though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hey QuicksDraw! Posted September 2, 2003 Share Posted September 2, 2003 I have yet to shoot a three gun but I have GOT to shoot that match next year. You guys are completely out of your minds! I'm in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam Posted September 4, 2003 Share Posted September 4, 2003 Quick Draw, John posted a link at the begining of this thread. I'm sure planning on going again next year. I hope to see you there too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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