Sights or Target Drill

[JThompson]

I only shoot the 50 yard part today and my groups were smaller when I focused on the dot (shooting open). With a target focus, the dot seemed to move to much and I felt myself either stopping a smooth trigger break and trying to rush the shot. When I focused on the dot, it seemed to not move and my trigger control was smooth, didn't have to think about it, it just happened. I will try again tomorrow I forgot to do it at 25 and 15 yards), maybey set up some steel as well.

I think you are going to find it easier to maintain the group either way as you get closer, but the dot focus will be tighter.

[Graham Smith]

I have "old" eyes and need to spend a lot of time working on focus and aim as they are always a compromise, so I have done things like this.

It's really difficult to put my finger on it, but the more I shoot, the more I find that when I speed up, I'm actually focusing primarily on the target and superimposing my FO front sight on that target. Whether that's good or bad, I'm not sure, but I am sure that now, when the targets get smaller or the distances get longer, my focus is switching to the front sight. I say now because I recently had to bash myself about the head and shoulders for trying to go too fast and mucking up stuff.

What I know is that I cannot do at a long distance what I do at a short distance. Which is exactly what I was told when I learned to shoot combat pistol. It's also that my conscious brain tells me that correct sight alignment is more critical at distance than close up. Again, something I have been told time and time again.

It just seems that there is no substitute for doing - the scientific method, if you will. Plan an experiment; run the experiment; examine the results; come to a conclusion; then start all over to retest things in a different way.

Now, there is a book for you Brian - "Shooting drills I have known and loved (or hated)."

Isn't someone running a "drill of the month club"?

[Filishooter]

I tried this drill at 25 but didn't have time to shoot it closer and didn't have access to 50 yards at the time.

I found out that my hits with a target focus were not as bad as I made myself believe they should have been! I had built up in my head that it was near possible to shoot accurately at that range with a pure target focus even though I've never really tried it. I had tighter groups with a front sight focus but I was surprised that I was getting decent hits (for me) at that range with a target focus. I guess this goes under "focus on SOMETHING and you should be ok". I didn't try it, but I imagine breaking a shot in that grey area, while they eyes are switching between the 2 would yield poorer results than either?

Besides this realization, i would say I felt more aware of where my focus was and I was aware of that "crossover point" where target focus becomes acceptable front sight focus and vise-versa. I think towards the end of the drill my eyes were focusing faster between target and front sight then when I started.

Now this was "only" at 25 yards...my results might be totally different at 50!

Edited August 28, 2008 by Filishooter

[TonyG35]

I tried this today at 25 yds. I am a new shooter and my accuracy is not that good but I did find that shooting with total front sight focus seemed to give me better results but they weren't too far off from the target focus results. Probably need to try this a few more times to get a better feel for it. Did notice with target focus my shots were hitting to the left where front sight they were centered.

Front sight: 7 A's, 1B, 2 C's

Target: 6A's, 4C's

[VegasOPM]

Well, I guess that I just figured out one of the drills I'll be practicing tomorrow.

[VegasOPM]

Well, I did indeed try this out today. I shot it at 65 yards, since I was also shooting my AR. The bottom line for me was 5/10 on a USPSA reg target using the sight focus (stock GLOCK 17 with stock sights- yuck). 8/10 on target (1 "D", 3 "C", 4"A") using target focus, sights blurry.

After this drill, I switched to headshots and shooting multiple targets on the move (10-15 yds). I decided to stick with target focus for the most part and it was interesting. My 15 yd headshots were solid "A's"- as were the 10 yd shots. One of my issues is that I see the sight moving while I'm pulling the trigger and I stop the shot and re-aim. When I was focusing on the target and overlaying the sights, I didn't notice any movement- and my shots were dead on.

I also had more of those "autopilot A's" today than I have had in a while. Of course- then I went too fast and got some "D's" and a couple of mikes.

[JKSNIPER]

We used to do a variation on this for new pistol shooters to make them stop looking at the target and focus on their sights.

We would find our problem child and then turn the target around so there was no scoring area visible just plain paper.

Most of our short bus kids at this point would then focus on their sights since there was not really anything to focus their attention on downrange and their groups would shrink right down.

A few hockey helmet people needed surgery to remove their ideas on how to shoot.

You "Master" shooters (all the guys/gals here who practice till their eyes are crossed and there's tape on their trigger fingers) can do the look at the target thing but if you try to train a new shooter to look at the target you'll have rounds going everywhere EXCEPT on the target.

You'd better buy stock in Precision or Lasercast bullets if you're going to train new guys/gals to shoot looking at the target.

Let me know first so I can insider trade.

I tink you guys /gals have reached a place most people who shoot do not reach.

Those who shoot occasionally will never reach it.

What happens is a lot like what Bruce Lee used to say:

"Before I studied the art, a punch to me was just like a punch, a kick just like a kick. After I learned the art, a punch was no longer a punch, a kick no longer a kick. Now that I've understood the art, a punch is just like a punch, a kick just like a kick. ."

New shooters and occasional shooters can't do this drill without seeing a difference favoring the looking at the sights method because they have not had the practice/rounds fired to be able to "feel" it when its right to just shoot.

They have not yet reached the place where they will "understand" it.

I think its a valuable thing to do to train with but it can be misleading to new people to think they can focus on the target and hit it consistently at 50 yards without "paying their dues" by putting in the hours of dry fire and range practice you guys/gals do.

Just my .02

JK

[VegasOPM]

JK,

I agree wholeheartedly about dealing with new shooters. Whenever I am training someone, I always hammer on "front sight, front sight..." I have gone as far as using a purple or silver sharpie mark on the front sight and telling the student that I want them to be able to describe that mark in detail for every shot.

[benos]

We used to do a variation on this for new pistol shooters to make them stop looking at the target and focus on their sights.

We would find our problem child and then turn the target around so there was no scoring area visible just plain paper.

Most of our short bus kids at this point would then focus on their sights since there was not really anything to focus their attention on downrange and their groups would shrink right down.

A few hockey helmet people needed surgery to remove their ideas on how to shoot.

You "Master" shooters (all the guys/gals here who practice till their eyes are crossed and there's tape on their trigger fingers) can do the look at the target thing but if you try to train a new shooter to look at the target you'll have rounds going everywhere EXCEPT on the target.

You'd better buy stock in Precision or Lasercast bullets if you're going to train new guys/gals to shoot looking at the target.

Let me know first so I can insider trade.

I tink you guys /gals have reached a place most people who shoot do not reach.

Those who shoot occasionally will never reach it.

What happens is a lot like what Bruce Lee used to say:

"Before I studied the art, a punch to me was just like a punch, a kick just like a kick. After I learned the art, a punch was no longer a punch, a kick no longer a kick. Now that I've understood the art, a punch is just like a punch, a kick just like a kick. ."

New shooters and occasional shooters can't do this drill without seeing a difference favoring the looking at the sights method because they have not had the practice/rounds fired to be able to "feel" it when its right to just shoot.

They have not yet reached the place where they will "understand" it.

I think its a valuable thing to do to train with but it can be misleading to new people to think they can focus on the target and hit it consistently at 50 yards without "paying their dues" by putting in the hours of dry fire and range practice you guys/gals do.

Just my .02

JK

Yes.

A good Bullseye coach will have a new shooter shooting at the back side of the target real soon.

But due to the high-speed/gotta-go-fast nature of IPSC shooting, many IPSC shooters shoot for years without ever really looking at or even near the front sight. Let alone know what it means to call a shot without doubt.

be