Flexmoney Posted July 31, 2008 Author Share Posted July 31, 2008 Used to be that it was generally accepted that the course designer was responsible for defining these things (and we'd strive to write our courses to be far more bulletproof). +1 That is the path. Always has been. As stage desingers, we not only have the responsibility...we most likely have the know-how. We all have seen the fall-out when it doesn't get spelled out. (for example...ammo can at Nationals, anyone?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted July 31, 2008 Author Share Posted July 31, 2008 BTW all...sorry for the side-track into joke land. That was my fault. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 I think many people tend to get overly worked up on start positions. If you the course designer want some specific fine write it in. However, I do not think a very strict starting position is required to provide a fair opportunity for all. On a medium or long course I don't think it is a big deal for very many people. Perhaps in the GM and M classes it is, but in the lower levels I doubt it. When creating stages I love to leave the start position vague. Stand in box A, seated on chair, and then watch people game themselves out of a stage. I love it when they get twisted all up into their super start position of their choice, and then have four rounds in the magazine, or they have three mikes on the stage. At that point it really did not matter, but they felt good about gaming the start position so they were happy to begin with. Classifiers and such need a more strict definition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JKSNIPER Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 I dunno....maybe its because I'm a simple kind of guy that I look at this as a simple issue of common sense. It kind of reminds me of a joke I heard. A cop pulls a motorist over for running a stop sign. THe motorist says "Officer I don;t think you should issue me a ticket for running that stop sign. I didn't RUN the stop sign. I slowed down and then rolled through it. Its not like I blew through it at high speed." The officer considers this arguement for a minute and then says "If I took out my baton and started beating the crap out of you with it and you yelled "Stop!" would you want me to stop or to slow down?" If a guy can't figure out what uprange/downrange means or hes being what we in the USMC used to refer to as a "Sea Lawyer" then that guy needs to go have himself a little range time out. We can make up little coloring books to be sold by USPSA and show guys "The Red area? Bad very bad. You no face that way...now the pretty blue area? Ohhh so nice! You face that way!" JK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wgnoyes Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 (edited) Yeah, I'm about ready to help Jim go get a squad of his truck monkeys to fix this <sarcastic quote> problem </sarcastic quote>. You know, this surprises me a bit, given your former "proud range lawyer" status, Bill Until the rulebook defines "downrange" as specifically as it defines "uprange", "downrange" is any direction that is just that - its a 180 degree swath. Any legal direction to fire a shot in. You want someone narrower than that, put it in the WSB - writing a few words to completely define a start position is simple, definitive, and a hell of a lot more specific than "moral outrage" because someone doesn't "get it" the way you do (that applies to you, too, Mr. Norman ). You guys just need to lighten up... A proud range lawyer that more and more feels the calling to specialize in advocating for the match director and course designer; they obviously need representation, too! I may even have to rethink my opposition to specifying "forbidden" actions in a stage. And I honestly don't see why it's such a stretch to understand that if "facing uprange" means facing uprange, why is it then so illogical to believe that "facing downrange" might, JUST MIGHT, possibly mean by-god FACING DOWNRANGE?!? Be that as it may, I have asked the person who designs our stages to include the following painfully complete verbiage in any stage briefing where the formerly totally obvious common-sense "facing downrange" would have sufficed and had sufficed for decades, until now: Start position: facing downrange, face and feet pointing straight downrange with shoulders parallel to the 90-degree median intercept of the backstop Or as Mr. Farris has said twice now and therefore following his lead, SQUARE THE @$&* UP! Edited July 31, 2008 by wgnoyes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted July 31, 2008 Author Share Posted July 31, 2008 Start position: facing downrange, face and feet pointing straight downrange with shoulders parallel to the 90-degree median intercept of the backstop Or as Mr. Farris has said twice now and therefore following his lead, SQUARE THE @$&* UP! Please be exceptionally accurate when attributing/quoting me, thank you. I started this thread to raise awareness on something that became very specific in the blue rulebook, that many might not have realized. That, specifically, was that "facing uprange" had been narrowly defined. The "square up" comment was layman's terms to clarify the odd terminology that was in the uprange definition. ------------------ [moderator hat on] The drift that took us on the path of "downrange" is tending toward "incessant bickering" (as seen in the rules at the top of the page). We don't need to talk on knee-capping people, questioning their logic, telling folks to "lighten up", comments of the "range lawyer" nature, etc. ...all that tends to stroke the fire and back people further into their corners. We've probably had all of that that we need to have. I don't really want to shut down the discussion. But, we aren't going to escalate the back and forth bickering. The arguing AT each other gets us nowhere. So, I am going to close this down. If there is any NEW info, please contact me or one of the other moderators and we will see about opening the discussion back up. (And yes, I realize that I participated in the direction this thread went. Still...gotta pull the plug.) - Admin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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