Stefano Posted May 13, 2008 Share Posted May 13, 2008 (edited) My friend has bought the CZ-USA competition hammer for his SP-01 Shadow, and after we have mounted the new hammer we have noticed that the savefy lever doesn't work. I know that this is a common problem and we have just to fit the safety lever with the new hammer. The problem is that it's the very first time we have to deal with this issue and we don't want to damage the parts ... Can anybody suggest the correct "how-to-do" procedure ? Photos will be extremely appreciated ... Edited May 13, 2008 by Stefano Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shay1911 Posted May 13, 2008 Share Posted May 13, 2008 My friend has bought the CZ-USA competition hammer for his SP-01 Shadow, and after we have mounted the new hammer we have noticed that the savefy lever doesn't work.I know that this is a common problem and we have just to fit the safety lever with the new hammer. The problem is that it's the very first time we have to deal with this issue and we don't want to damage the parts ... Can anybody suggest the correct "how-to-do" procedure ? Photos will be extremely appreciated ... Hey Stefano, I don't have any pics, but will try to describe... The Angus hammer has a raised sear bed, which changes the timing of the single action. You have two options, fit the sear to the safety or the safety to the sear. I think it is easier to fit the safety to the sear. You will notice that there is a cam lobe that slips under the sear. Right now, it is too high and wont slip under. Take the safety back out and remove material from that lobe. Go just a bit at a time, you can't add material if you took too much off. Make sure you keep it nice and round, keep checking for fit. Keep the sear cage in the gun, hammer cocked and keep testing it. It doesn't take long. You also may have to remove some material from the under side of the disconnector to adjust the double action. I am sure you have noticed the trigger pull is now, it is well worth the effort. Shay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shay1911 Posted May 13, 2008 Share Posted May 13, 2008 Ok, I took some pictures... 1. Round this edge just a bit, makes the double action smoother. 2. This surface may need to be lowered in order to advance the double action. If no problem with the double action, don't worry about it. 3. This is the cam lobe that needs to be lowered just a tad. Remember, work slowly and keep testing. Keep it the same shape. 4. This is the engagement of the safety to sear. You need to lower that lobe so it slips under the sear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stefano Posted May 13, 2008 Author Share Posted May 13, 2008 (edited) Shay, thank you so much for your tips !!! You're right: the result is worth the effort you have to spend .... .... AND THANKS AGAIN FROM THE DEEPEST OF MY HEART FOR THOSE PHOTOS !!! (sometime a picture is better than 1 hundred words ! ). Stefano Edited May 13, 2008 by Stefano Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shay1911 Posted May 14, 2008 Share Posted May 14, 2008 Glad to help Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stefano Posted May 14, 2008 Author Share Posted May 14, 2008 (edited) ...........You also may have to remove some material from the under side of the disconnector to adjust the double action. ........... Shay, thanks to your exceptional tips & photos, last night the "wizard apprentice" has worked on his friend's gun and now the new hammer works GREAT !! I would like to ask you some more infos about how to fit also the disconnector, to adjust the double action: plase, can you better describe how it works and what's the result of removing material from the under side of it ? We would like to reduce a bit the trigger-travel of the double-action, and I ask myself if removing material from the under side is the right way to obtain this ... Apart from this I have noticed a little problem related to the trigger-pull: if the traction of the finger-tip on the trigger-shoe is straight rearward, perfectly parallel to the gun's frame-central-axis it's all right; if you "milk" a little the trigger from one side of the frame to the other (easy to happen when you are shooting with your weak hand...) .... the trigger doesn't work perfectly and sometimes the sear does'n dis-engage the hammer: but when you re-adjust your finger (and the trigger-pull) all works correctly. Sorry, it's not easy for me to describe more clearly the issue due to my bad english: I hope you have understood ... Edited May 14, 2008 by Stefano Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skywalker Posted May 14, 2008 Share Posted May 14, 2008 I would like to ask you some more infos about how to fit also the disconnector, to adjust the double action:plase, can you better describe how it works and what's the result of removing material from the under side of it ? We would like to reduce a bit the trigger-travel of the double-action, and I ask myself if removing material from the under side is the right way to obtain this ... Stefano, you'd better warn our mutual friend that this is an illegal modification under IPSC Production rules ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eerw Posted May 14, 2008 Share Posted May 14, 2008 (edited) the perpendicular face of area #2 in Shay's photo rests against the trigger bar. as the trigger bar pushes rearward it lowers and at a point the disconnect will release. by taking metal of area 2 ( which is the bottom face ) it changes that point of release when the trigger bar is lowering..by rounding area #1. you get the trigger bar to roll instead of snap past that point. this will shorten the DA pull because you get the disconnector to release sooner. Shay..at what depth are you cutting the wings on the connector? NOTE: found where we talked about this before on CZF "I bring the ears down to around .11 and round off the edge. The hammer only travels back half way before it falls. Running a 13# mainspring with no problems." also some info from Jim Miossi "Some people will slightly round the underside of the of the inside lower edges of the disconnector and this works but I prefer to remove the metal more evenly along the length of the ears. The reason for this is that as you round or remove metal from the ears the DA pull is shortened and the hammer will not go as far back, to me this is an important point in reliability and by removing 0.001 past the breaking point leaves enough room for debris and changes over time. I have more control removing metal on a flat plane then I do by rounding the edges, also if you use a marker on the ears you can adjust then for any tolerance differences with the trigger bar and adjust accordingly with more precision by removing from the underside of the ears. This makes a better DA pull just before the break as the trigger bar and disconnector are being pushed back evenly on both sides." Stefano..the problem is probably because something is not equal to the other side..so by pressing to the side..at the release point there is interference..either on the trigger bar or the disconnector. also you may want to check this on IPSC production rules..as you are purposely removing material and not just polishing. Edited May 14, 2008 by eerw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shay1911 Posted May 14, 2008 Share Posted May 14, 2008 I am glad eerw chimed in, lots of experience with these. I am not too familiar with IPSC rules, sorry. The reason why your hammer is not falling when you milk the trigger is because of the double action timing. Its as if you are not pulling the trigger far back enough to release the double action. You are pulling in single action but it also has to clear the double action. The double action works the way that eerw described, the disconnecter slips over the trigger bar. You need to make that process happen sooner so the trigger doesnt get stuck in double action. And looks like eerw already posted how much to remove while I am typing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stefano Posted May 14, 2008 Author Share Posted May 14, 2008 (edited) I would like to ask you some more infos about how to fit also the disconnector, to adjust the double action:plase, can you better describe how it works and what's the result of removing material from the under side of it ? We would like to reduce a bit the trigger-travel of the double-action, and I ask myself if removing material from the under side is the right way to obtain this ... Stefano, you'd better warn our mutual friend that this is an illegal modification under IPSC Production rules ... NO problem Luca, the owner of this "customized" SP-01 doesn't shoot IPSC. He's only a "sunday-shooter" who wants a smoother trigger on his pistol ... Edited May 14, 2008 by Stefano Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stefano Posted May 14, 2008 Author Share Posted May 14, 2008 Eerv, Shay, thanks a lot for the extra-infos ! I have no experience about pistolsmithing because (being a Production IPSC shooter) as a rule I know that on my pistols I can't do NOTHING ! That's why I love to shoot production: quite simple living (and shooting) and no gunsmithing troubles ... Again, thanks a lot ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stefano Posted May 15, 2008 Author Share Posted May 15, 2008 .......I bring the ears down to around .11 and round off the edge. The hammer only travels back half way before it falls. Running a 13# mainspring with no problems." [/b] Eerv, just to confirm: 0,11 inch is the total lengh of the resized disconnector ears ? Is this a raccomanded lenght or the minimum ? What happens if something goes wrong and we bring down the ears a little bit more ?? Sorry, but due to the fact that this isn't my gun I would prefer to forward all the infos directly to the owner, just to avoid any responsability, in case of mistakes ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shay1911 Posted May 15, 2008 Share Posted May 15, 2008 Hey Stefano, Make sure they are even thickness, more important. Take it down to .14 first, test your trigger pull. .11 is in order to shorten up the double action. The hammer will not go all the way back, only half way, which makes the double action stroke much shorter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stefano Posted May 16, 2008 Author Share Posted May 16, 2008 Thank you so much Shay: the forecasting for this WE are stormy, so we'll have the time to make "experiments", thanks to yours + Eerv's tips. Guys, it's incredible how much useful is this forum !! You can found a solution for ANY kind of problem ... Thanks again to you all !! Stefano Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stefano Posted May 17, 2008 Author Share Posted May 17, 2008 (edited) Well, just a brief update to our story ... After a little fitting of the disconnector ears, now my friend's Shadow works PERFECTLY ! Even that little problem of double-action timing I've previously declared is totally vanished ! For what I've learned, when you change the stock hammer with the competition one, MOST PROBABLY you have also to review the double action timing, fitting a little bit also the disconnector. Ehehehe ... thanks to you guys I've learned a pretty good lessons !! The result is so good that now me and my club-mate are looking at another challenge: "how to reduce the reset-excursion of the trigger" .... ... and of course we haven't idea of "how-to-do" it Edited May 17, 2008 by Stefano Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shay1911 Posted May 17, 2008 Share Posted May 17, 2008 Well, just a brief update to our story ...After a little fitting of the disconnector ears, now my friend's Shadow works PERFECTLY ! Even that little problem of double-action timing I've previously declared is totally vanished ! For what I've learned, when you change the stock hammer with the competition one, MOST PROBABLY you have also to review the double action timing, fitting a little bit also the disconnector. Ehehehe ... thanks to you guys I've learned a pretty good lessons !! The result is so good that now me and my club-mate are looking at another challenge: "how to reduce the reset-excursion of the trigger" .... ... and of course we haven't idea of "how-to-do" it Hello Stefano, Glad to hear you are happy The Angus hammer makes a world of difference. What do you mean by "how to reduce the reset-excursion of the trigger" ? Do you still have the firing pin block in it or did your Shadow come without one? Do you have an over travel adjustment on your trigger? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eerw Posted May 17, 2008 Share Posted May 17, 2008 oh yeah...reducing reset... depending on the gun..the trigger resets on one or two places...the sear lever and the firing pin block lever.. if you don't have a FPB...that simplifies things quite a bit..the FPB lever is the last to be reset.. the sear lever extends under the ejector housing..and as the trigger bar comes back forward it picks up the sear. you'd have to shorten/change the angle of the lever to allow the trigger bar to catch it sooner..not sure what would change if you cut too much..as I haven't played too much with this..as I have not short cycled the trigger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stefano Posted May 18, 2008 Author Share Posted May 18, 2008 What do you mean by "how to reduce the reset-excursion of the trigger" ?Do you still have the firing pin block in it or did your Shadow come without one? Do you have an over travel adjustment on your trigger? Sorry Shay: it's my fault for not having well-explained what I want to do. We would like only to have a shorter trigger-reset on my frind's Shadow ... Eerw has understood what I mean ... The gun comes whitout the FPB and (as far I can see) whiout over-travel adjustment ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stefano Posted May 18, 2008 Author Share Posted May 18, 2008 oh yeah...reducing reset...depending on the gun..the trigger resets on one or two places...the sear lever and the firing pin block lever.. if you don't have a FPB...that simplifies things quite a bit..the FPB lever is the last to be reset.. the sear lever extends under the ejector housing..and as the trigger bar comes back forward it picks up the sear. you'd have to shorten/change the angle of the lever to allow the trigger bar to catch it sooner..not sure what would change if you cut too much..as I haven't played too much with this..as I have not short cycled the trigger. Thanks Eerw, I'll play a little with the sear (serching BEFORE to grab another backup-spare sear, just to be sure of having an "insurance" in case of problems ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shay1911 Posted May 18, 2008 Share Posted May 18, 2008 (edited) the sear lever extends under the ejector housing..and as the trigger bar comes back forward it picks up the sear. you'd have to shorten/change the angle of the lever to allow the trigger bar to catch it sooner..not sure what would change if you cut too much..as I haven't played too much with this..as I have not short cycled the trigger. Full auto I have played with it before I leave it as it is now. Also, an overtravel stop on the trigger helps a lot. Making the trigger pull too light and cranking on the over travel stop can also make you go full auto. http://czcustom.com/catalog/product_info.p...18a8afbd95bb2d0 I stay on the conservative side on the reset and over travel. I want a solid, crisp and reliable trigger pull that you can take to a match without a DQ Edited May 18, 2008 by Shay1911 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stefano Posted May 18, 2008 Author Share Posted May 18, 2008 .................I stay on the conservative side on the reset and over travel. I want a solid, crisp and reliable trigger pull that you can take to a match without a DQ Totally agree !! For sure this is also my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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