Starting back.... memory loss

[MrClean]

Getting started back in shooting after over 10 years of being absent. I have always shot a 1911 and am very comfortable with that. However, I now carry a Glock and would like to shoot the same for competition so if in the unfortunate event I ever have to 'use' my weapon, muscle memory will basically aid in me being as quick as possible.

Therefore, I am thinking I should get another Glock other than what I will carry and shoot for fun with it. So.... the question (I know you are thinking "about time")

What advantage/disadvantage is there to shooting a 9mm and minor as opposed to a .40 and major? Like I said, I've always shot a 1911 up until this year when I became involved with the local S.O. so the 'jump' of the 40 over a 9mm should not bother me at all and I don't forsee that as a factor.

So far I have the following info:

1) 9mm is way cheaper to shoot/reload than 40

2) scoring in minor is better if you are accurate??

I'm just trying to figure out how to base my decision.

Also.... I have recently come across a smokin' deal on an XD pistol of my choice. So I'm probably going to end up with one of the 5" tactical pistols. Yep.... don't know if I want to order a 9mm or 40 once again.

Any help would be greatly appreciated from you guys.

[boz1911]

Major is always better in all divisions except Production where all scoring is done minor. Decide on division you want to shoot first. Welcome back!

[bruce282]

If you're going to shoot Production, it's only scored as Minor regardless of the caliber so you get nothing for your extra $ spent in using .40. If you shoot Limited-10 however, now you are some bang point-wise for your bucks. Lots of folks like the Glock35, it works well in Production, Limited-10, and Limited.

Bruce

[G-ManBart]

If you're going to shoot Production, it's only scored as Minor regardless of the caliber so you get nothing for your extra $ spent in using .40.

Not entirely true. At the same power factor a .40 is softer shooting than a 9mm. I don't think it's a huge deal either way, but some people swear by it. Also, the .40 makes a bigger hole that will sometimes get you the next higher scoring ring. I guess it could also get you a no-shoot that you just clip where a 9mm won't but I've never seen anyone mention that

[MrClean]

If you're going to shoot Production, it's only scored as Minor regardless of the caliber so you get nothing for your extra $ spent in using .40.

Not entirely true. At the same power factor a .40 is softer shooting than a 9mm. I don't think it's a huge deal either way, but some people swear by it. Also, the .40 makes a bigger hole that will sometimes get you the next higher scoring ring. I guess it could also get you a no-shoot that you just clip where a 9mm won't but I've never seen anyone mention that

Hmmmm..... ok.... for those of you that reload (in process of getting Dillon equipment again now) how much cheaper is 9mm to load up. Say per 500 rounds what is the difference between it and 40? Because it would appear that is the main difference after reading so far. I won't be shooting in any open ever. I have no desire. I would shoot in production/limited/limited 10 only. Shot in limited 10 last match with my 1911. I'm back to simply have fun. No stressing about mistakes or 'edging someone out', etc. If I place last, I plan on having the same amount of fun with it. I'm too old for more stress. lol

[bruce282]

Both rounds use the same primer so that's a wash. 1k of 147JHP Zeros at Roze are $98, 180gr JHP Zeros for .40 list for $119 (not that they have any). If you have to pay for your brass, that's another cost, but I've seen brass right around the same price for either caliber. 1 lb of Titegroup will load ~ 2000 9mm at 3.5 per round, and ~1600 .40 at 4.4.

So bullets are the biggest difference, and while the actual costs will not be same, the % difference should stay around the same, regardless of bullet type or construction, i.e. lead, moly, plates, or jacketed. I load 9mm and .45acp so I got the charge for the .40 from here on Enos.

Bruce

Edited February 13, 2008 by bruce282

[sslav]

Both rounds use the same primer so that's a wash. 1k of 147JHP Zeros at Roze are $98, 180gr JHP Zeros for .40 list for $119 (not that they have any). If you have to pay for your brass, that's another cost, but I've seen brass right around the same price for either caliber. 1 lb of Titegroup will load ~ 2000 9mm at 3.5 per round, and ~1600 .40 at 4.4.

So bullets are the biggest difference, and while the actual costs will not be same, the % difference should stay around the same, regardless of bullet type or construction, i.e. lead, moly, plates, or jacketed. I load 9mm and .45acp so I got the charge for the .40 from here on Enos.

Bruce

My minor .40 load is 3.5gr of Titegroup under 180gr bullet gets me 130+PF out of G-35 OEM barrel. So it comes down to the price of bullets, which still adds up mighty quick.

Slav

[G-ManBart]

Yep, price of bullets is going to be the most significant difference. Right now Montana Gold 9mm 147cmj's work out to $92 per K if you buy a case of 3K and the .40 180cmj's are $109 per K if you buy a case of 2.5K so it's $17 per thousand difference.

One thing to think about as far as brass is concerned is that you can probably pick up free .40 if the deparment you're working with doesn't recycle the brass. We don't because it's too much trouble, so they just leave it....I grab a box and pick up a couple thousand once-fired Win cases a couple times a year and all I have to do is make sure to use a Lee/EGW U-die on them since they're all shot through a Glock and won't pass the case gauge without the U-die.

[MrClean]

Yep, price of bullets is going to be the most significant difference. Right now Montana Gold 9mm 147cmj's work out to $92 per K if you buy a case of 3K and the .40 180cmj's are $109 per K if you buy a case of 2.5K so it's $17 per thousand difference.

One thing to think about as far as brass is concerned is that you can probably pick up free .40 if the deparment you're working with doesn't recycle the brass. We don't because it's too much trouble, so they just leave it....I grab a box and pick up a couple thousand once-fired Win cases a couple times a year and all I have to do is make sure to use a Lee/EGW U-die on them since they're all shot through a Glock and won't pass the case gauge without the U-die.

Good Point. SO here uses 9mm so..... I think I'll call tomorrow and check on availability of 'free brass'. If I can get free brass..... guess I will be shootin a 9mm!

[MrClean]

Can you tell me more about what you mean with the Lee/EGW U-die and being shot through a Glock??? I have no clue what that is, just have RCBS and Dillon dies around here. And the 9mm I get (if I do) will be out of Glocks.... so I'm interested in that aspect as well.

Yep, price of bullets is going to be the most significant difference. Right now Montana Gold 9mm 147cmj's work out to $92 per K if you buy a case of 3K and the .40 180cmj's are $109 per K if you buy a case of 2.5K so it's $17 per thousand difference.

One thing to think about as far as brass is concerned is that you can probably pick up free .40 if the deparment you're working with doesn't recycle the brass. We don't because it's too much trouble, so they just leave it....I grab a box and pick up a couple thousand once-fired Win cases a couple times a year and all I have to do is make sure to use a Lee/EGW U-die on them since they're all shot through a Glock and won't pass the case gauge without the U-die.

[G-ManBart]

Can you tell me more about what you mean with the Lee/EGW U-die and being shot through a Glock??? I have no clue what that is, just have RCBS and Dillon dies around here. And the 9mm I get (if I do) will be out of Glocks.... so I'm interested in that aspect as well.

Yep, price of bullets is going to be the most significant difference. Right now Montana Gold 9mm 147cmj's work out to $92 per K if you buy a case of 3K and the .40 180cmj's are $109 per K if you buy a case of 2.5K so it's $17 per thousand difference.

One thing to think about as far as brass is concerned is that you can probably pick up free .40 if the deparment you're working with doesn't recycle the brass. We don't because it's too much trouble, so they just leave it....I grab a box and pick up a couple thousand once-fired Win cases a couple times a year and all I have to do is make sure to use a Lee/EGW U-die on them since they're all shot through a Glock and won't pass the case gauge without the U-die.

Sure. Glocks (and many other service weapons) tend to have chambers that are cut on the generous side at the mouth to promote reliable feeding. When you reload brass that has been shot in them with normal dies, they can't resize that last little bit near the rim and that keeps them from going all the way into a case gauge. It will likely shoot in another Glock with a similar chamber, but not always. I have seen a fair amount of difference between two otherwise identical looking Glocks....one will really let the back of the case expand noticably more than another of the same model. It's not as much a problem with 9mm as it is with .40, but it's still there.

If any other departments besides the SO use that range there's a good chance you can pick up other brass for free as well. One time I picked up about 300 once-fired .308 cases from Federal match ammo after a sniper training day...they were throwing it out!

Something that just occured to me is that if you think you might want to shoot Limited-10 or Limited in addition to Production you'll be at a significant disadvantage shooting 9mm with minor scoring. Of course that would be a good argument for another gun R,

[MrClean]

I was just about to ask about that. The scoring. That seems to be a factor that I wasn't really aware of. Is it really going to hurt me bad? I have a 1911 for limited I could shoot. I need to do some reading to see what I can do to the gun in Production and not bump up to limited maybe. ugh... decisions decisions

Oh.... will these "Lee/EGW U-die" things work in a Dillon 550? are they standard size and all? Or am I going to have to load 'em via single stage press. eeeeeew

Yea... new gun. Just bought a RRA AR... Glock 17.... about to order an XD maybe but I think I'll just buy another Glock 40 for limited.... the 35. And I could shoot my 17 in Production. Or can I? I put the 3.5 lb connector, extended slide release and mag release, but all that comes standard/production on the 34.... so could I still shoot my 17?

Can you tell me more about what you mean with the Lee/EGW U-die and being shot through a Glock??? I have no clue what that is, just have RCBS and Dillon dies around here. And the 9mm I get (if I do) will be out of Glocks.... so I'm interested in that aspect as well.

Yep, price of bullets is going to be the most significant difference. Right now Montana Gold 9mm 147cmj's work out to $92 per K if you buy a case of 3K and the .40 180cmj's are $109 per K if you buy a case of 2.5K so it's $17 per thousand difference.

One thing to think about as far as brass is concerned is that you can probably pick up free .40 if the deparment you're working with doesn't recycle the brass. We don't because it's too much trouble, so they just leave it....I grab a box and pick up a couple thousand once-fired Win cases a couple times a year and all I have to do is make sure to use a Lee/EGW U-die on them since they're all shot through a Glock and won't pass the case gauge without the U-die.

Sure. Glocks (and many other service weapons) tend to have chambers that are cut on the generous side at the mouth to promote reliable feeding. When you reload brass that has been shot in them with normal dies, they can't resize that last little bit near the rim and that keeps them from going all the way into a case gauge. It will likely shoot in another Glock with a similar chamber, but not always. I have seen a fair amount of difference between two otherwise identical looking Glocks....one will really let the back of the case expand noticably more than another of the same model. It's not as much a problem with 9mm as it is with .40, but it's still there.

If any other departments besides the SO use that range there's a good chance you can pick up other brass for free as well. One time I picked up about 300 once-fired .308 cases from Federal match ammo after a sniper training day...they were throwing it out!

Something that just occured to me is that if you think you might want to shoot Limited-10 or Limited in addition to Production you'll be at a significant disadvantage shooting 9mm with minor scoring. Of course that would be a good argument for another gun R,

[98sr20ve]

I was just about to ask about that. The scoring. That seems to be a factor that I wasn't really aware of. Is it really going to hurt me bad? I have a 1911 for limited I could shoot. I need to do some reading to see what I can do to the gun in Production and not bump up to limited maybe. ugh... decisions decisions

Oh.... will these "Lee/EGW U-die" things work in a Dillon 550? are they standard size and all? Or am I going to have to load 'em via single stage press. eeeeeew

Yea... new gun. Just bought a RRA AR... Glock 17.... about to order an XD maybe but I think I'll just buy another Glock 40 for limited.... the 35. And I could shoot my 17 in Production. Or can I? I put the 3.5 lb connector, extended slide release and mag release, but all that comes standard/production on the 34.... so could I still shoot my 17?

They are a standard size die. I have never had any issues with my 9mm reloads in my G34. I use Lee 4 die set and everything chambers, every time. Also, even with the stock barrel I get no "bulge" with my G34 and minor loads. I would shoot your carry gun if you carry or very similiar. What do you carry?

Edit In production all the glocks you mention are legal and all the mods you mention are legal. I would get good sights on whatever you shoot as well, and some griptape.

Edited February 14, 2008 by 98sr20ve

[G-ManBart]

Yeah, minor scoring in Limited-10 or Limited will really hurt you. Some people will say slow down and shoot all A's but nobody does that in a match. So, for every C you lose 2 points where major only loses one. For every D you lose four points where major only loses 3. A minor D is really more like a no penalty mike in my book. A 1911 can be used in Limited, but competitive guns in Limited really need to have a mag capacity of 18+....a lot of people have 20-21 round mags and you'll never hang with them using a 1911. Limited-10 is another story...get some 10 round mags and a 1911 is good to go for L-10.

The Lee/EGW die is a normal resizing die (7/8") that will fit in your 550 perfectly. The main difference is that it's .001 undersized from standard and has less of a flare at the opening so it sizes further down the case body....they work great!

A G17 set up that way would be fine for Production. Certainly check the rules at USPSA, but you can change sights, do internal stuff like trigger work, replacement barrels (with a factory profile) and install factory items that are available for your gun even if it didn't come that way from the factory (like the extended mag release). You can put a grip sleeve or grip tape on the grip, but nowhere else.

The one thing I tell everyone to be wary of is the extended slide stop lever on Glocks....for many, many people they get accidentally bumped up and lock the slide back prematurely, or held down so the slide won't lock back when it should. I don't have huge hands, but I had to have the one taken off all my issue Glocks and never looked back. R,

I was just about to ask about that. The scoring. That seems to be a factor that I wasn't really aware of. Is it really going to hurt me bad? I have a 1911 for limited I could shoot. I need to do some reading to see what I can do to the gun in Production and not bump up to limited maybe. ugh... decisions decisions

Oh.... will these "Lee/EGW U-die" things work in a Dillon 550? are they standard size and all? Or am I going to have to load 'em via single stage press. eeeeeew

Yea... new gun. Just bought a RRA AR... Glock 17.... about to order an XD maybe but I think I'll just buy another Glock 40 for limited.... the 35. And I could shoot my 17 in Production. Or can I? I put the 3.5 lb connector, extended slide release and mag release, but all that comes standard/production on the 34.... so could I still shoot my 17?

Can you tell me more about what you mean with the Lee/EGW U-die and being shot through a Glock??? I have no clue what that is, just have RCBS and Dillon dies around here. And the 9mm I get (if I do) will be out of Glocks.... so I'm interested in that aspect as well.

Yep, price of bullets is going to be the most significant difference. Right now Montana Gold 9mm 147cmj's work out to $92 per K if you buy a case of 3K and the .40 180cmj's are $109 per K if you buy a case of 2.5K so it's $17 per thousand difference.

One thing to think about as far as brass is concerned is that you can probably pick up free .40 if the deparment you're working with doesn't recycle the brass. We don't because it's too much trouble, so they just leave it....I grab a box and pick up a couple thousand once-fired Win cases a couple times a year and all I have to do is make sure to use a Lee/EGW U-die on them since they're all shot through a Glock and won't pass the case gauge without the U-die.

Sure. Glocks (and many other service weapons) tend to have chambers that are cut on the generous side at the mouth to promote reliable feeding. When you reload brass that has been shot in them with normal dies, they can't resize that last little bit near the rim and that keeps them from going all the way into a case gauge. It will likely shoot in another Glock with a similar chamber, but not always. I have seen a fair amount of difference between two otherwise identical looking Glocks....one will really let the back of the case expand noticably more than another of the same model. It's not as much a problem with 9mm as it is with .40, but it's still there.

If any other departments besides the SO use that range there's a good chance you can pick up other brass for free as well. One time I picked up about 300 once-fired .308 cases from Federal match ammo after a sniper training day...they were throwing it out!

Something that just occured to me is that if you think you might want to shoot Limited-10 or Limited in addition to Production you'll be at a significant disadvantage shooting 9mm with minor scoring. Of course that would be a good argument for another gun R,

[MrClean]

Our SO carries either a 17 or 19 Glock. That way ammo ordering/handling is simplified and we always have plenty. A good thing! I just ordered an XD 5" tactical (got a smokin deal from local gun club through Springfield). I am going to give it a try, but will probably end up with a 34 or 35 Glock so as to stay the same whether on range or on street.

I was just about to ask about that. The scoring. That seems to be a factor that I wasn't really aware of. Is it really going to hurt me bad? I have a 1911 for limited I could shoot. I need to do some reading to see what I can do to the gun in Production and not bump up to limited maybe. ugh... decisions decisions

Oh.... will these "Lee/EGW U-die" things work in a Dillon 550? are they standard size and all? Or am I going to have to load 'em via single stage press. eeeeeew

Yea... new gun. Just bought a RRA AR... Glock 17.... about to order an XD maybe but I think I'll just buy another Glock 40 for limited.... the 35. And I could shoot my 17 in Production. Or can I? I put the 3.5 lb connector, extended slide release and mag release, but all that comes standard/production on the 34.... so could I still shoot my 17?

They are a standard size die. I have never had any issues with my 9mm reloads in my G34. I use Lee 4 die set and everything chambers, every time. Also, even with the stock barrel I get no "bulge" with my G34 and minor loads. I would shoot your carry gun if you carry or very similiar. What do you carry?

Edit In production all the glocks you mention are legal and all the mods you mention are legal. I would get good sights on whatever you shoot as well, and some griptape.

[MrClean]

Thanks for all the info! I will pay attention to that slide release and yank it if I see the least bit inclination to screw me up. Yep, shot my 1911 in L-10 last match, have many 10 round mags. I simply love the 1911's. But think it'll be fun to shoot the ol' Polymer in Prod or Limited as well. one can never have TOO many guns.

Yeah, minor scoring in Limited-10 or Limited will really hurt you. Some people will say slow down and shoot all A's but nobody does that in a match. So, for every C you lose 2 points where major only loses one. For every D you lose four points where major only loses 3. A minor D is really more like a no penalty mike in my book. A 1911 can be used in Limited, but competitive guns in Limited really need to have a mag capacity of 18+....a lot of people have 20-21 round mags and you'll never hang with them using a 1911. Limited-10 is another story...get some 10 round mags and a 1911 is good to go for L-10.

The Lee/EGW die is a normal resizing die (7/8") that will fit in your 550 perfectly. The main difference is that it's .001 undersized from standard and has less of a flare at the opening so it sizes further down the case body....they work great!

A G17 set up that way would be fine for Production. Certainly check the rules at USPSA, but you can change sights, do internal stuff like trigger work, replacement barrels (with a factory profile) and install factory items that are available for your gun even if it didn't come that way from the factory (like the extended mag release). You can put a grip sleeve or grip tape on the grip, but nowhere else.

The one thing I tell everyone to be wary of is the extended slide stop lever on Glocks....for many, many people they get accidentally bumped up and lock the slide back prematurely, or held down so the slide won't lock back when it should. I don't have huge hands, but I had to have the one taken off all my issue Glocks and never looked back. R,

I was just about to ask about that. The scoring. That seems to be a factor that I wasn't really aware of. Is it really going to hurt me bad? I have a 1911 for limited I could shoot. I need to do some reading to see what I can do to the gun in Production and not bump up to limited maybe. ugh... decisions decisions

Oh.... will these "Lee/EGW U-die" things work in a Dillon 550? are they standard size and all? Or am I going to have to load 'em via single stage press. eeeeeew

Yea... new gun. Just bought a RRA AR... Glock 17.... about to order an XD maybe but I think I'll just buy another Glock 40 for limited.... the 35. And I could shoot my 17 in Production. Or can I? I put the 3.5 lb connector, extended slide release and mag release, but all that comes standard/production on the 34.... so could I still shoot my 17?

Can you tell me more about what you mean with the Lee/EGW U-die and being shot through a Glock??? I have no clue what that is, just have RCBS and Dillon dies around here. And the 9mm I get (if I do) will be out of Glocks.... so I'm interested in that aspect as well.

Yep, price of bullets is going to be the most significant difference. Right now Montana Gold 9mm 147cmj's work out to $92 per K if you buy a case of 3K and the .40 180cmj's are $109 per K if you buy a case of 2.5K so it's $17 per thousand difference.

One thing to think about as far as brass is concerned is that you can probably pick up free .40 if the deparment you're working with doesn't recycle the brass. We don't because it's too much trouble, so they just leave it....I grab a box and pick up a couple thousand once-fired Win cases a couple times a year and all I have to do is make sure to use a Lee/EGW U-die on them since they're all shot through a Glock and won't pass the case gauge without the U-die.

Sure. Glocks (and many other service weapons) tend to have chambers that are cut on the generous side at the mouth to promote reliable feeding. When you reload brass that has been shot in them with normal dies, they can't resize that last little bit near the rim and that keeps them from going all the way into a case gauge. It will likely shoot in another Glock with a similar chamber, but not always. I have seen a fair amount of difference between two otherwise identical looking Glocks....one will really let the back of the case expand noticably more than another of the same model. It's not as much a problem with 9mm as it is with .40, but it's still there.

If any other departments besides the SO use that range there's a good chance you can pick up other brass for free as well. One time I picked up about 300 once-fired .308 cases from Federal match ammo after a sniper training day...they were throwing it out!

Something that just occured to me is that if you think you might want to shoot Limited-10 or Limited in addition to Production you'll be at a significant disadvantage shooting 9mm with minor scoring. Of course that would be a good argument for another gun R,