el pres Posted February 12, 2008 Share Posted February 12, 2008 Been practicing these dryfire and some live (cold weather) and timed myself cold today... Standard El Pres, turn draw 5.45 10 A's 2 C's 1.43 draw 1.61 .18 1.92 .31 2.13 .21 2.45 .32 2.64 .19 4.18 1.54 reload 4.39 .21 4.73 .34 4.93 .20 5.25 .32 5.45 .20 Bill Drill 2.20 All A's 1.34 1.53 .19 1.72 .19 1.88 .16 2.04 .16 2.20 .16 What should I be working on the most ?? I feel I should have a faster draw but I cannot break that 1 sec mark without getting sloppy and out of control ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Di Vita Posted February 12, 2008 Share Posted February 12, 2008 Work on your draws and reloads. Those are some pretty cookin times once you mend that hole. Your draws and reloads should be averaging .9 - 1.1 on the el prez, and your draw should probably be around .7 for the bill drill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
el pres Posted February 12, 2008 Author Share Posted February 12, 2008 Well I practice draws all the time but just cant break 1.0,1.1 and keep control all the way up to the sights. Drives me nuts... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Di Vita Posted February 12, 2008 Share Posted February 12, 2008 Well there are only 3 possible reasons (excluding being physically unable....but I highly doubt that's you). 1. Your form is holding you back. 2. You haven't practiced enough. 3. It's all in your head. My guess is that it's a mix of all 3. Why don't you post some videos and I can give you some feedback. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyin40 Posted February 12, 2008 Share Posted February 12, 2008 +2 on the video. You'll be amazed the first time you see yourself. Without a video its really hard to say what your doing. Have you seen Travis Tomasie's video or Jake's video?? Flyin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ankeny Posted February 12, 2008 Share Posted February 12, 2008 I agree, the draw and reload could use some improvement. The splits and transitions are pretty good. Just curious, what division are you shooting? I think Jake's times for the draw and reload are pretty sporty and a lofty goal. Still, a sub- five second El Pres is doable for the vast majority of shooters with a little (maybe a lot) of practice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j1b Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 Well I practice draws all the time but just cant break 1.0,1.1 and keep control all the way up to the sights. Drives me nuts... I've found that a lot of time in the draw can be consumed at the holster. Try focusing on popping the gun out of the holster. Snapping it out. What ever vernacular you want to use - focus on that area of the draw. Not the speed of getting the hands down to the holster, or the speed getting the gun up on target. Focus 100% on popping that gun out of the holster and see what that gets you. May work, may not, but in my experience with the people I've taught that has improved draw times drastically with little or no effect on target. J Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Di Vita Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 I agree with Jack...Ideally (with practice) the gun should be coming out of the holster as soon it touches your hand and at a very rapid pace. Also, how is your index? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
el pres Posted February 13, 2008 Author Share Posted February 13, 2008 I'll see if I can get a video together, I'm shooting Limited .... Whats your index ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Di Vita Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 Index, natural point of aim, ya know. How good are you aligning up behind the target. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
el pres Posted February 13, 2008 Author Share Posted February 13, 2008 Index, natural point of aim, ya know. How good are you aligning up behind the target. I got that down pretty good, I now draw with my eyes closed and line up everytime. Shake it, wiggle it, swing it around the room, come back and I,m still dead on .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Di Vita Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 Have you tested that in live fire? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ankeny Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 (edited) ...and how does your index hold up on the turning draw. FWIW, Jake and Jack are spot on about wasting time at the holster. Getting to the gun is the easy part. BTW, as you probably know, your El Pres would score 98.5% nationally. Edited February 13, 2008 by Ron Ankeny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
el pres Posted February 14, 2008 Author Share Posted February 14, 2008 (edited) Well I never checked my NPA during livefire, but will. During the turn draw I'm good (dryfire), as soon as I see the gun the sights are on. Here's some vids, not the best lighting I guess... draw 1 draw 2 My refrence is to feel the middle and ring fingers on the grip tight then I pull.. Edited February 14, 2008 by DIRTY CHAMBER Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trevoro Posted February 14, 2008 Share Posted February 14, 2008 For what it's worth... Jake made an earlier post about snapping the gun out of the holster. After watching the vids, it looks like you could gain some time there so that advice was right on. You might think about training yourself to react to the buzzer. If you are reacting at the end of the beep, you could gain 2 tenths by training to react to the start of the beep alone. Your surrender draw looks very smooth. Your hands at sides draw has an exaggerated motion coming up and then down on the gun. You could gain a bit of time by coming to the gun and getting rid of the exaggerated up/down motion. There are probably several schools of thought on this though. The top shooters I have watched on video seem to 1) jerk to the gun, 2) pause for grip, and 3) jerk to target. Take time where precision is important (the grip) and rush everything else. We run mostly field courses at my local clubs and the draw is usually part of some other action like taking the first step. I can pull sub 1 sec draws, but I don't remember the last time I felt like it was really important in a match. Getting a good grip and being balanced and set up to run the COF is much more important. I guess it is good to work on ALL skills, but your draw looks smooth and consistent. It won't help to sacrifice that for the sake of a few tenths on the first shot. You can easily make up those tenths on the first few transitions, not to mention points. Of course a fast AND consistent draw would be nice to have too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j1b Posted February 15, 2008 Share Posted February 15, 2008 DC A lot of your time is being spent at the holster. My advice is to really concentrate on getting that gun out of the holster as fast as possible. Don't sacrifice the security of your grip on the gun to do it, but you definitly don't want that lag time down there. Your body, and more appropriately your hand, will learn to adjust to the speed that things are happening. You'll keep your index after a little practice. But I've got no doubt that the one second barrier is is there to be broken if you snap that gun out of the holster instead of "pulling" it out of the holster. J Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Di Vita Posted February 15, 2008 Share Posted February 15, 2008 From a glance...your hand speed getting to the gun is way too slow. Get your hand to the gun and the gun out of the holster as fast as humanly possible. (A few good tricks for this is concentrating on moving your weakhand to the reception position as quickly as possible and also exhaling hard at the beep). Also make sure you drive the gun hard to the target...I start slowing the gun down at about mid-extension to pick the sights up. Also, if you get a chance....try to post some videos of live fire draws, bill drills, and el prez's. Those will be much more telling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ankeny Posted February 15, 2008 Share Posted February 15, 2008 When I watched the videos I was wondering if you were going as fast as possible or if you were just showing us your technique. Jake is right about videoing a live fire drill. In fact, if you will video a live fire drill and draw just as fast as you can, I suspect these guys can really help you. Take heart, it took me a long time to break the one second barrier, but once you have it down, it's a piece of cake. Hint: Do you redirect your mental focus to the elements of the draw, or are you kindof on auto-pilot? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
el pres Posted February 15, 2008 Author Share Posted February 15, 2008 What ? And show you guys my poor reaction to the buzzer, ya right !! No, no I'm just joking. Thanks a lot for all your responses, we just got another foot of snow yesterday so it will be a few days before I get out to the desert again (slush box) What you all are describing is right were I feel slow. I use to try to pop it out but coming up I would get all bent out of shape, and a different shape everytime. So I came up with having to get a lock(squeez) with my right middle and ring fingers before I move the gun and so it comes up the same everytime. Dont get me wrong, I'm not obsessed with some draw time that I think I need to be producing just something I noticed could be improved among other things.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
el pres Posted February 27, 2008 Author Share Posted February 27, 2008 (edited) Alright, I finally made it out today, we "finally" hit "50F" today "oh ya"!! Anyhow heres some vids first is an ElPrez at 5.40 something 9 A's 3 C's ElPrez1 ElPrez different angle BillDrill sloppy! I almost made the draw today, been praticing and pulled a 1.07, close !! Also got an El Prez at 4.71 but had 2 D's. What do guys think? Edited February 27, 2008 by DIRTY CHAMBER Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j1b Posted February 28, 2008 Share Posted February 28, 2008 Alright, I finally made it out today, we "finally" hit "50F" today "oh ya"!!Anyhow heres some vids first is an ElPrez at 5.40 something 9 A's 3 C's ElPrez1 ElPrez different angle BillDrill sloppy! I almost made the draw today, been praticing and pulled a 1.07, close !! Also got an El Prez at 4.71 but had 2 D's. What do guys think? Good improvement. Keep it up. I'd still contend there's a little too much time at the holster. That's off that single bill drill though - so hard to say. One thing you may want to do, because I thought about asking this before posting, go through the exercise of a self critique. What do you think? You're obviously getting better - how? What is working? What isn't? What are the couple of key's you've started implementing thus far that have helped the most? Honestly, I am very curious about the self critique (if you decide to). I think that'd be eye opening for me just to see how you've taken the advice of these forum members and implemented it. J Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
el pres Posted February 28, 2008 Author Share Posted February 28, 2008 Self critique would start with my laziness. Laziness in technique, watching guys like that Blake Miguez really points out my lack of explosivness!! Biggest thing I changed was getting rid of the small up down motion when reaching the holster by grabing straight from the side instead of under. I acually started to practice reloads in dryfire (for the first time) and they are really starting to feel smoother. Everyday I'm finding out just how hard this game is, how many repetitions it takes to gain just a tenth in something. If my technique looks ok then my self critique would be geared towards lack of the attack mindset... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ankeny Posted February 28, 2008 Share Posted February 28, 2008 As you have noticed, when you hit the wall, it seems like it takes forever to gain a fraction of a second. From what I see, you could shoot sub five second El Pres drills with just a little refinement. Try a search on reloads and see if keeping the gun higher is something that might work for you. You look a bit tense in the Bill Drill, but as j1b pointed out, it's hard to tell much from one video. It's easy to blow an entire Bill Drill just from a minor bobble on the grip. I am really anal, and horribly negative and critical of my own shooting. For years I believed a sub one second draw was not possible (for me). Fact is, they are a piece of cake once you let yourself do it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j1b Posted February 28, 2008 Share Posted February 28, 2008 Fact is, they are a piece of cake once you let yourself do it... If that doesn't sum it up I don't know what does. Nice Ron. A great quote! J Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kuh pahl Posted February 29, 2008 Share Posted February 29, 2008 (edited) For the El Prez, it looks like you slow down a lot on your reload to the next shot. Also, your shot splits and your target transitions can be a fraction faster. You can easily save .5 off your time with a 1 second reload. Faster target transitions would obviously save you even more time. Edited February 29, 2008 by kuh pahl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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