Flexmoney Posted February 8, 2008 Share Posted February 8, 2008 Any more questions/thoughts on topic? Or, should we go ahead a close the thread? - Admin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JThompson Posted February 8, 2008 Share Posted February 8, 2008 Any more questions/thoughts on topic? Or, should we go ahead a close the thread?- Admin I'd say we beat the poor animal pretty well... I notice Gary is on the thread, if he doesn't have anything to add then close it if ya like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMS42 Posted February 8, 2008 Share Posted February 8, 2008 I'm 5' 8", 175 lbs. and old. At least my back thinks that it is. I've seen and gone through Cooper tunnels since the early 80s. Some we did a low crawl through with the loaded guns holstered--some of us stepped off to the side for that--rational at that time was "Holster Test". Some we did a high crawl with the gun in hand--much safer, but hard for guys with bad backs or knees. Some were high enough that all I had to do was bend over a bit. Of all the Cooper tunnels, I prefer the ones where I just bend over a bit. I don't mind having to stop and do some shooting through a port. I would prefer to never have to go through a low tunnel again. If you want people to use the tunnel instead of taking a procedural either put a shooting port inside the tunnel or a target that just becomes visible near the end and must be shot while in the tunnel which is the same thing. And for sure make the tunnel high enough that we don't have to get down on all fours to get through it. A 5 ft. high tunnel should make almost all people bend over a bit. Did I mention that I hate Cooper tunnels? Maybe I could make a Hate Rank out of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punkin Chunker Posted February 8, 2008 Share Posted February 8, 2008 The thing is there was not a gap there in the first place... you have a circular argument here. Fixing the safety issue for the RO caused another path to be opened. That was closed by use of the FA rule. You CAN compell the shooter to stay within the intended COF. Anyone who has designed COFs at in indoor range knows how hard it is when you have just a backstop to shoot in. I'm not saying that is the case here, but there ARE safety issues and stage design is problematic as is originality. We are talking about a last minute fix to keep an RO from crawling down a tunnel following a shooter. When you are talking level I there are probably a few guys doing the stages and 20 guys picking them apart at the last minute. They found a safety issue and this would fix it. If they had days to prep it and plenty of help, then there was probably a better solution, but IMHO this rule was put in for just such a case. It was last minute find and the RM can make this call. If someone gave me to much crap about it I would put it like this. We can do it this way or I will pull the stage.... any questions? No. Okay then, let's have some fun. I am not an RM, nor do I have any credentials... I simply read the rules and ask questions. You are right -- I had drifted from the specific of the example to the generalization of the tunnel. It was a last minute fix, in which case the FA argument can be applied. IMEHO, problems with how shooters approach stages, whether those problems are found in planning, set-up, debugging, or walk-through, can best be resolved with shooting challenges, not finding which rule can be slapped on. Need to give the RO a gap? Fine, give the RO a gap. Oh, the shooter will go through the gap because INTENT cannot be used as a guideline? Then give the shooter a reason to be in the tunnel. If the shooter has no reason to go through the tunnel, then the tunnel really has nothing to make it part of a shooting challenge, does it? Which circularizes me back to my main point -- what was the point of the tunnel, if there was no shooting involved? What aspect of shooting does a sterile tunnel challenge? If the point is to present a physical challenge, then keep set-up simple and start off with a 100-yard dash, or two chairs and a broomstick fo the limbo, or require the shooter to make a balloon doggie on the start signal. Just put it in the WSB and it's all okay? But I just kinda believe that since the sport is about shooting, then the props should be, too. It's always fun and intellectually stimulating to bat stuff around on a good rules thread. Thanks for sharing your thoughts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted February 8, 2008 Share Posted February 8, 2008 But I just kinda believe that since the sport is about shooting, then the props should be, too. The Cooper Tunnel is specifically mentioned in the rule book...and named after the guy that started the whole "shootin' match". On that note...before we drift off...I am going to close this topic out. I think the rule has been covered. If not, PM me or another moderator. But, if you want to talk about something other than the rule, please address that with a different thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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