Chemicals and Brass Failure

[David Sinko]

I have heard that exposing brass to ammonia can cause the brass case to fail in a big way. Has anybody ever found this out the hard way? What exactly constitutes an "exposure?"

What about laundry detergent? I was given a quantity of Federal .223 brass in a five gallon bucket that originally contained "glacier scent concentrated laundry detergent" in powder form. There had been a little bit of powder residue left behind and some of the brass has been stained by it. The inside of this bucket smells so strong that even the slightest whiff is overpowering. Can this stuff hurt my brass like it does my nose or am I merely going to have nice glacier scented brass?

Dave Sinko

[mc223]

I'm not a fan of Federal brass anyway. so I would send it straight to the recycler. It is said that some is soft and that the primer pockets do not hold up for more than a few loadings. It is also said that some is OK. There is a photo of the difference of the web thickness but for whatever reason I can not post it. (My computer has the problem not the site)

Here is the link. You will need to register if not already to access the photo.

http://www.nationalmatch.us/forums/index.p...c=6071&st=0

Quote from asa yam on another forum:

There is a difference between the lettering in "good" and "bad" Federal.

"Bad" Federal has thicker lettering.

"Good" Federal has thin lettering - about the same line width and size as LC.

Edited January 7, 2008 by mc223

[warpspeed]

I'm not a fan of Federal brass anyway. so I would send it straight to the recycler.

+1

If it is the commercial FC headstamp and not the mil LC stuff, I'd get my $ 1.30 / pound and move on, even if was given to me in vacuum packed bags.

I have had several batches that 1 in 10 that would not hold a new primer which causes me to wonder that maybe some that do will come loose in the magazine and fall out. Now, a dud is a bad thing but a primer floating around in the mag or the gun could really bring things to a halt.

I have since sorted after loading and when I find them, they go to the practice box.

[wsimpso1]

The whole problem with ammonia exposure was discovered by the English army during the Boer War. They had burst case heads on everything from pistols to artillery, sometimes wiping out field pieces and the gun crew. The means of exposure was ammo in wooden crates in the same ship holds as their horses over a sea voyage from England to the South Africa.

I have had primers that perforated at splits from stress corrosion cracking. The maker found ammonia in the cracks. It was either from Hoppes #9 and Sweet's 7.62 solvent used to clean rifle barrels close by over a few weeks or whatever exposure it got in the gun shop. You wouldn't think that they cleaned the floor with ammonia based cleaners once in a while, would ya?

I doubt that detergent would have much ammonia in it. We have no idea what the rest of the perfumes used in laundry detergent are. I am with the others on Federal 223. When I come home with FC 223 Rem, it goes right into the scrap brass bucket.

Billski

[David Sinko]

I estimate that I have some 1500 pieces of FC brass. Some of it is FC .223 Rem with big letters, some has small letters, some with small letters has crimped primers and some does not. Then there is the FC 05. All of it is processed and ready to go. I use CCI primers exclusively and have been loading some single stage up to three times to see how they hold up. So far I don't have any problems, but this has been with the small lettered stuff with crimped primer pockets that have been reamed. Soon the 550B will be switched over and they'll all be loaded at least once. Indications are that the CCI primers will allow me to get at least some use out of them.

I intend to start rifle and maybe 3 Gun competition this year and am trying to figure out volume loading of bottlenecked rifle cartridges and any "new" risks. Other than ammonia, the only other thing I've heard that can kill brass (and the gun it is fired in) is accidentally annealing the wrong end of a cartridge case, but that would have to be done at the factory.

Dave Sinko

[bigsaxdog]

i've been on a .223 reloading mission for about 2 yrs., mainly because the price of ANY .223 ammo is just CRAZY! the vendors gotta be smokin' crack, or the buyers .......but.......federal brass is my least favorite. always short, for some reason, and the primer pocket crimp is real erratic. still goes bang though, and federal must know a thing or two, cause' they sure make alot of the stuff. LC is definitely the shizzit, though. have tried accuracy comparisons w/ others, and LC is by far the best. and lemme tell ya', i ain't the only one that sez this! don't know if it's the quality of the brass, or the annealing process, or the case volume, or what......one thing i have found is that there's alot of voodoo in the case volume of the different kinds of brass, and that's important in a case that will hold only @25 grs. of powder. check it out yourself, weigh batches of 5 of all the different brands.....

[dickwholliday]

years ago i used Lacquer thinner to wash the lube off of 223 and others.......i'm paying for it now when i shoot that ammo.....the necks are so brittle that just going from the mag to the barrel will split them......some will lose the entire neck when fired which sometimes remains in the barrel but generally is recovered by the next round which will of course fail to chamber........D I C K

[Triggerbender]

i've been on a .223 reloading mission for about 2 yrs., mainly because the price of ANY .223 ammo is just CRAZY! the vendors gotta be smokin' crack, or the buyers .......but.......federal brass is my least favorite. always short, for some reason, and the primer pocket crimp is real erratic. still goes bang though, and federal must know a thing or two, cause' they sure make alot of the stuff. LC is definitely the shizzit, though. have tried accuracy comparisons w/ others, and LC is by far the best. and lemme tell ya', i ain't the only one that sez this! don't know if it's the quality of the brass, or the annealing process, or the case volume, or what......one thing i have found is that there's alot of voodoo in the case volume of the different kinds of brass, and that's important in a case that will hold only @25 grs. of powder. check it out yourself, weigh batches of 5 of all the different brands.....

+1 I am with you 100% on this.

I am still pretty new to the 223 as far as loading, I sort all my brass by headstamp and am puzzled by the case volume "VOO-DOO" between brands.

As far as the FC brass goes they seem to be soft and thin in critical areas, most of the guys who will load it at all will use once fired, not go max charges and load the 1 time and let them fly.

YMMV.

[NC Shooter]

Surface corrosion is probably the first and best indicator to reject brifle brass. Brass whore that I am I don't mind a little corrosion from range foundling pistol brass that has been laying on the ground for a while but I get picky about rifle brass due to the pressures involved.

I have even pulled the bullets and scrapped rifle ammo that I bought from the CMP (mostly Greek HXP stuff) that were sealed in spam cans since the 50's. Problem is that If I do not know what caused the corrosion I won't risk shooting it in my babies.

Ken

Edited for spelling error.

Edited May 20, 2008 by NC Shooter

[chizzle]

"I have heard that exposing brass to ammonia can cause the brass case to fail in a big way. Has anybody ever found this out the hard way? What exactly constitutes an "exposure?"

Dave,

I'm an industrial water chemist that designs water treatment chemical programs specifically to minimize corrosion in brass and copper. You are completely correct that ammonia can cause severe corrosion on brass and copper systems (specifically, it can leach the copper out of the brass). This is one of the major reasons that ammonia refrigeration systems don't have any brass associated with them; it just wouldn't last. In your case, I'm not sure what was in the containter that you encoutered, but if the ammonia was strong enough to smell, there was likely enough of it to cause serious damage. Conditions that would make this worse would include any sort of fluid that the ammonia gas could dissolve into, resulting in more contact with the brass surface. My suggestion would be to dispose this brass and try to prevent any sort of ammonia contact in the future. Even the best brass in the world wouldn't stand up in that type of environement.

Be safe!

Chizzle

[anachronism]

When I first started reloading, I tumbled my brass in Brasso. Brasso makes the brass REALLY shine. My case mortality rate back then was atrocious. Some of the cases cracked in strange ways, like one 41 magnum case I have around here somewhere that split from the base up, but didn't crack all the way to the case mouth. It's kind of curious looking. When this happened, I did a bunch of research on the subject, and discovered it was likely the Brasso that caused my problems. I switched polishes, and now my brass lasts a good long time. I think Brasso is fine for what it was originally intended for, but since cartridge brass expands, then is sized down again, the brass just loses it's elasticity.

BTW, I've been experimenting with a tool called the "Case Saver", which reswages oversized primer pockets back down to hold primers tight again. I have experienced every drawback that's been posted above with my Federal brass. Since I have over 1000 of them left, I needed to try to save them somehow. Reswaging primer pockets is a bit tedious, but it may be worth it in the long run, especially with brass as expensive as it is now.

[Bitswap]

When I started reloading bmg, a site advocated using brasso polish. There was controversy concerning this as brasso contains ammonia. I deciced to conduct an experiment myslef on this using brass strips from a local hardware store.

Long story short... the small amount of ammoinia and short time tumbling made a SIGNIFICENT difference in the integredy of the brass.

IMO, a brass polish really does nothing but make the brass look nice. What your really trying to do when you tumble is get rid of the nasties that will scratch your dies. If you really want to pollish, get something from Dillons MADE for our brass.

[anachronism]

I'm experimenting with car polish and lizard litter for case cleaning right now. The lizard litter works great, and I can live with the price. I'm not totally sold on Nu-Finish for cases, though, my cases seem to tarnish just as quickly when using it. I really like Dillons case polish, but the price has gotten too hot for my tastes, so I'm searching for an alternative.

[ken's brass]

I have heard that exposing brass to ammonia can cause the brass case to fail in a big way. Has anybody ever found this out the hard way? What exactly constitutes an "exposure?"

What about laundry detergent? I was given a quantity of Federal .223 brass in a five gallon bucket that originally contained "glacier scent concentrated laundry detergent" in powder form. There had been a little bit of powder residue left behind and some of the brass has been stained by it. The inside of this bucket smells so strong that even the slightest whiff is overpowering. Can this stuff hurt my brass like it does my nose or am I merely going to have nice glacier scented brass?

Dave Sinko