SV_shooter Posted December 8, 2007 Share Posted December 8, 2007 (edited) yesterday I played w my Brazos pro 5. I have been collecting reloading supplies by either buying brass in the classifieds, or in this case, I been shooting magtech .38SA +P's as I find them easy in the dark range and the price is right. I shot about 400 rds or so w just some minor cycling problems i.e the mags I am using are untuned until I go and get my HSmiths from work. I notice that the follower rubs the slide sometimes and slows or stops the cycling of the gun, but the gun would always feed w a little nudge to the back of the slide if it didnt completely cycle, and it extracted the 1st 300 every time. this last visit to the range I had quite a few rds fail to eject. they were getting stuck between the breechface and the barrel hood on almost every shot. Also The mag was holding on to the last round and not feeding into the barrel. After 5 shots I decided to disassemble the pistol and take a good look at the link, barrel, frame, etc... I cleaned it and went back out.. same problem. mag, ammo, or gun? It seems the timing was perfect and I don't hear much about bobs guns puking. no stove pipes or partial feeds. if the slide will advance, the bullet feeds just fine, or the last shot stays in the mag w/o even attempting to feed. I will have to wait a week as the gun is being DROS'ed and I left out of town, but I sure would like to get to the bottom of this w/o having to visit "Mr. Smith"...Gun Smith! thanks! Edited December 8, 2007 by SV_shooter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-ManBart Posted December 8, 2007 Share Posted December 8, 2007 Did you take the extractor out and clean the tunnel? Was the slide stop engaging when it wouldn't feed the last round? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brazos Custom Posted December 8, 2007 Share Posted December 8, 2007 I read in one of your other posts "I'm not running SC brass either, but I have winchester, Magtech nickel, and lapua Brass, w zero .355 125g. JHP's," The Lapua is rimless and not the same as 38 super in fact it is not even the same as supercomp. Do you know if the gun was originally setup for super comp or super? The extractors are different and one will not consistently run the other type of brass. Use the exact load I gave you and you should not have problems (brass, primer, powder, bullet). This will give you a baseline and you can experiment from there. Then if you have problems you will be able to isolate them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSMITH Posted December 8, 2007 Share Posted December 8, 2007 I think Bart is on it........ The Grams followers in the mags are NOT modified for slide lockback so that the customer can tune his mags to lock back or not lock back. In a LOT of guns this will lock the slide back with one round left in the mag if the follower isn't tweaked. Typically the Brazos guns run VERY well, pull the extractor and clean the tunnel out, and clean the top end well. Don't be afraid to put some oil in the gun, especially if it is brand new. Try it again. Click this link for Brazos article on the follower mod http://www.brazoscustom.com/magart/0505.htm and don't hesitate to let me know if you need anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radical Precision Designs Posted December 8, 2007 Share Posted December 8, 2007 (edited) I read in one of your other posts "I'm not running SC brass either, but I have winchester, Magtech nickel, and lapua Brass, w zero .355 125g. JHP's," The Lapua is rimless and not the same as 38 super in fact it is not even the same as supercomp. Do you know if the gun was originally setup for super comp or super? The extractors are different and one will not consistently run the other type of brass. Use the exact load I gave you and you should not have problems (brass, primer, powder, bullet). This will give you a baseline and you can experiment from there. Then if you have problems you will be able to isolate them. +1 In another two threads I copied a post addressing this issue. If the follower is sitting that high where it interferes with the slide, then your rounds are coming up too fast and dislodging the empty before the ejector has enough time or angle to hit them clear. It is also dislodging the empty from the extractor. If you look ar your FTE case lodged between the breechface and barrel hood you will notice that the extractor is off the case rim. Your lips need to be closed enough to lower their height position in the magazine, making sure they remain parallel. This will help a lot, especially with "hot" loads. You probably will notice that changing spring weight is not helping you much either and that you have erratic case ejection, some of them going forward or just rolling over. Lastly, check to see if you are breaking your wrist. Yes, even some experienced shooters do break their wrists while shooting. This can cause or aggravate your situation. I had a customer who had a similar problem after he bought a new set of factory mags. They were blueprinted to factory specs, but the followers were sticking out and the above problem cropped up. I lowered the lips and the problem was gone. I put one thousand rounds myself through that gun without a single malfunction before I gave it back to the customer with his new mags. Next day he calls me and tells me he is having the same problems again. He had changed the lube instructions and the recommended loads. Ok, he shouldn't be doing that this early in the game, but he should be able to do it in a gun that was already broken-in. He is also brand new to the re-loading game, and is learning that too. So I asked him to meet me at the range and asked him to bring all the different kinds of ammo he had made. I also brought about two hundred of my own in two bullet weights (115 and 124). At the range I took the gun as he brought it, and did nit make any changes to spring weight or lube. I filled all his six magazines to the top and proceeded to fire them all. NOt one single malfunction. Then I took different sampling of his ammo and did the same with all mags. NOT one single malfunction. Letting the gun cool off just a little bit now and then, I personally fired over five hundred rounds of all different power and bullet weights, including some of Atlanta Arms Supercomp ammo. Oh, yes even included over one hundred of regular .38 Super. (The gun is set-up to handle both Super and Supercomp) Heck I even ran through some of my 9 Major loads through it. It RAN flawlessly. Then I handled the gun to the customer. Immediately he started having problems with FTE's. I smiled and watched him shoot. I asked him why was he NOT riding the thumb safety. He replied he didn't think it mattered. I examined the thumb safety and the bottom of the slide. He was lucky that the thumb safety was not broken, as rub marks were evident in the slide and thumb rest from being pushed up. I asked him to correct that. He did, and he improved immediately, but still had a few FTE's. I observed he was breaking his wrists considerably. He had some problems rectifying this. I gave him a wrist "splint" I had in my bag, and he put in on. He proceeded to put two hundred rounds through without a hitch. He continued to shoot untill he ran out of ammo. No matter what he put in, no problems. Now he understands that he needs to go back and "un-learn" some bad habits. And, yes, get a chrono to help him experiment. Just having/owning a "top quality" gun does not guarrantee you will have no problems ... if you do not listen or do your part. Edited to ad: As soon as I saw his wrists breaking, I gave him my production gun to shoot with some "powder puff" loads I had. I first put in a full mag downrange myself with no malfunctions shooting two handed, and then single handed. I asked him to do the same, both ways. He had numerous "stove pipes", and it was worse single handed. That showed him that it would/could happen with any gun, if he did not correct his grip. Edited December 8, 2007 by Radical Precision Designs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill d Posted December 8, 2007 Share Posted December 8, 2007 I read in one of your other posts "I'm not running SC brass either, but I have winchester, Magtech nickel, and lapua Brass, w zero .355 125g. JHP's," The Lapua is rimless and not the same as 38 super in fact it is not even the same as supercomp. Do you know if the gun was originally setup for super comp or super? The extractors are different and one will not consistently run the other type of brass. Use the exact load I gave you and you should not have problems (brass, primer, powder, bullet). This will give you a baseline and you can experiment from there. Then if you have problems you will be able to isolate them. Hey Bob, I ordered a tuned extractor off of you last week and told the lady that it was for 38 super comp. She said it was for 9mm/38s/40. I said I need it for supercomp. She said hold on, and asked someone and got back on and said, "it will work, they are the same". So what's the deal. Is the one I have correct or will it not work? I'm using it as a backup for the AFTEC and need to trust it if needed. Thanks in advance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brazos Custom Posted December 8, 2007 Share Posted December 8, 2007 I read in one of your other posts "I'm not running SC brass either, but I have winchester, Magtech nickel, and lapua Brass, w zero .355 125g. JHP's," The Lapua is rimless and not the same as 38 super in fact it is not even the same as supercomp. Do you know if the gun was originally setup for super comp or super? The extractors are different and one will not consistently run the other type of brass. Use the exact load I gave you and you should not have problems (brass, primer, powder, bullet). This will give you a baseline and you can experiment from there. Then if you have problems you will be able to isolate them. Hey Bob, I ordered a tuned extractor off of you last week and told the lady that it was for 38 super comp. She said it was for 9mm/38s/40. I said I need it for supercomp. She said hold on, and asked someone and got back on and said, "it will work, they are the same". So what's the deal. Is the one I have correct or will it not work? I'm using it as a backup for the AFTEC and need to trust it if needed. Thanks in advance. The gun SV Shooter has should have an Aftec extractor in it. The aftec in 38 super is different than supercomp. The tuned extractor we sell is the same for either one - the tension just needs to be adjusted. You should put the tuned extractor in - adjust the tension if need be and run it to test it to be sure it will work. Then you can either leave it in and use the Aftec as a backup or take it out and know that it will work if you need it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brazos Custom Posted December 8, 2007 Share Posted December 8, 2007 Just a side comment on tuning an extractor to work with 38 super and 38 super comp. In every gun there is an optimal setup for tension of the extractor on the case. The Aftec in 38 super or supercomp is designed to provide pressure on the case to hold it in place at bottom of the extractor groove (the end of the hook is pushing in). There is no pressure on the case rim - there is space between the case rim and the belly of the hook. The extractor groove on super measures 0.338 and on super comp 0.328. The supercomp also has a smaller rim which will move to the left on the breechface prior to ejection. The resulting difference in dimensions will mean that an extractor optimized for 38 super will be loose on a supercomp round and that an extractor optimized for supercomp will be too tight on a round of 38 super. Also using lots of 38 super in an extractor tuned for supercomp will cause the extractor to loose it tension quickly. I choose to tune extractors for one type ammo or the other - that way they can be set for the mid point of the optimum range for that specific round and they will stay in tune longer and be more reliable than a compromise setting that will run both. As you shoot your gun parts start to wear and the gun will start to eject differently. If you are in the middle of the adjustment range things will be reliable for a longer time before you have to make adjustments. p.s. Howard had it right on locking back with one round left in the mag. You have to tune both the slide stop and the follower as detailed in the article. The slide stop should already be tuned so you are halfway there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SV_shooter Posted December 10, 2007 Author Share Posted December 10, 2007 thanks for all the input Bob, Howard, G-man, and of course venry. yes, I did purchase lapua brass as well as winchester, and have been firing off magtechs in the gun and nothing else yet. I haven't loaded up any lapua yet, and I won't! magtech/winchester is all I could purchase at the range for now. Bob, Unless you added meat to the extractor and shaped the hook differently, I am guessing that this is not an aftec. this gun was built about 4-5 years ago. I noticed the newer 5" Pro comes w a tapped mag release w your cyclone button. this gun does not have this option, so I am guessing you used to use a different brand extractor in the past. please correct me if I am wrong. it is just strange that the gun worked fine for almost 400 rds then just decided to crap out on me. the gun is virtually new as there is now approx. 1000 rds fired through the gun between its previous owner and myself. the slidestop is modified, but the follower is stock. HSmith, I am looking at the followers you tuned on my mags and they are SWEET! I have a lot of tuned mags from all those who do mag tuning for my limited guns(except bob's) and I am really impressed with the uniformity and consistency of the follower shape. I can tell my slide stop isn't going near it. When I return home for the holiday I will try the gun with these fine new mags and report back. I firmly believe it is the mag. I know Bob makes a gun that runs so I would never even question his work. Venry, as usual you made me think... As usual! cheers everybody! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brazos Custom Posted December 10, 2007 Share Posted December 10, 2007 PM me the serial number and I should be able to look up how it was set up originally. We switched accounting packages in late 1999 but as long as it was built later than that I should be able to look it up. The problem I run into quite often is that the used guns I have seen have been extensively modified once they left my hands. (I can't account for that). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SV_shooter Posted December 10, 2007 Author Share Posted December 10, 2007 Bob, the gun is bone stock from you. zero mods were done to this gun according to the seller. when I get back home in a week or so I will email you the serial. maybe that will help determine what parts were used at the time. thanks for all your help! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SV_shooter Posted January 17, 2008 Author Share Posted January 17, 2008 havent even shot it since I last posted, and I have a steel match saturday. I got my new tuned mags, and the gun is still failing to feed. sometimes it locks right up. most of the time there is a a delay like the follower is rubbing against the slide, or it just sits open and refuses to lock into battery w/ a thumb nudge. these are brand new tuned mags/followers. I think the spring is kinked in my big stick, and the feed lips are either too high or too tight. tried to take pics with the calipers to the feed lips, but only have 2 hands.. hopefully these pics help solve the problem. otherwise I'm shootin my singlestack open gun... PLEASE HELP!!!!! great.. only one pic loaded... need t shrink these down and its closin time. see ya all tomorrow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSMITH Posted January 17, 2008 Share Posted January 17, 2008 (edited) I'd be happy go go over the mags for you and make sure everything is OK..... The Grams mag springs take kind of a curvature with the nose of the follower up as you use them, normal and not a problem. Shouldn't be any way to kink the spring..... In all honesty it sounds like a Super extractor and Super Comp cases, or just WAY too much extractor tension. I wonder what Bob originally built the gun for? PM or email me with a phone number and when I can call, there are some simple things we can check over the phone. I'd also urge you to call Bob, a very talented and helpful guy. Edit: spelling. Edited January 17, 2008 by HSMITH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSMITH Posted January 17, 2008 Share Posted January 17, 2008 Forgot to add the follower isn't even a potential suspect until the last round is feeding, up until that time it can't act on the slide in any way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SV_shooter Posted January 17, 2008 Author Share Posted January 17, 2008 Forgot to add the follower isn't even a potential suspect until the last round is feeding, up until that time it can't act on the slide in any way. Howard, I will follow your advice and pm you my number. thanks buddy! I will also talk to bob. FYI: I never fired a single round of SC or lapua through my gun. only magtechs, and hopefully some winchester tonight if I get this problem sorted. thanks again ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jostein jensen Posted January 17, 2008 Share Posted January 17, 2008 try to take the photo without flash and with better focus. The picture is very blurry on full size. You need to have a longer shutter time to get the light good enough, but just use something to steady the cam if you're not steady enough by hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SV_shooter Posted January 17, 2008 Author Share Posted January 17, 2008 (edited) try to take the photo without flash and with better focus. The picture is very blurry on full size.You need to have a longer shutter time to get the light good enough, but just use something to steady the cam if you're not steady enough by hand. I'll try that. trying to get in deep enough to actually see the problem. Will try after the boss leaves for lunch Alright, here's a pic of the slide stuck 1/4 the way into battery. It only sticks to the 170 tube. it takes the pressure of my thumb to push the slide forward. here's another pic. Edited January 18, 2008 by SV_shooter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SV_shooter Posted February 25, 2008 Author Share Posted February 25, 2008 PROBLEMS SOLVED!!!!!! I spent some quality time with HSmith over the phone about my problems. 1)Turned out I was loading my OAL WAY WAY WAY too long for one. 2) the tension of my old extractor needed to be adjusted after sitting 5 years in a safe. I bought an aftic as a spare just in case. I want to thank HSmith for His tech support for these beautiful looking/ running mags. Since I started loading under 1.255 the mags have worked flawlessly. I have tuned mags from Dawson and Brazos. These fit better than everyones mags I ever tried. zero slop in the grip and they have not malfunctioned in either gun for over 2000 rds. Big ups to Howard!!!! He is getting my business for 5 .40 140's right now for my new used site tracker I picked up from Zerwas. I simply will not buy mags from another smith unless its HOWARD-SMITH!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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